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§ Altirra 1.7 released

Things have eased up and I've gotten a little bit more time lately for hobbies, so it's time to start flushing out the release backlog. We'll start with Altirra, since it's the easier one to release and I'm feeling lazy today.

The new release is version 1.7. New features include flash cartridge and IDE emulation, portable mode, fast boot, video recording, hard disk burst I/O, and secondary monitor display acceleration. Bug fixes include debugger stability improvements, CPU undocumented instruction fixes, and improved compatibility for the built-in HLE kernel. Since it's been about four months since the last release, this version has gotten extra testing, and special thanks to Mclane and Breaker for continually testing new releases (and contributing to the epic comment thread on the last post).

It's safe to say that I never thought I'd get this far, and now that I know how much is involved, I'm not likely to try writing another emulator. Well, unless I get another nostalgia kick, and truth be told, the Heathkit H-89 and TRS-80 Model 4 are not nearly as interesting machines. The Apple II doesn't have much in the way of interesting hardware. The C64 never interested me as much, and I hated that butt-slow 1541 disk drive with a passion. (No, I didn't have the Epyx fast load cartridge. Yes, I was bitter.) There's the TI-99/4A, but the only good game I had was Parsec, and TI BASIC made the 1541 look fast. Oh, there's the Amiga....



No, I'd better not.

Anyway, if you're an Atari 8-bit fan, please enjoy the new version.


Comments posted:

Well, not gone a month with the latest beta release ...
Thanks for the update, Phaeron.
As always emulator on top.

that you plan to do in 1.8, not a secret?

breaker - 04 09 10 - 17:52

He has mentioned it on Atari Age but plans are idea's that may or may not happen. I hope this one does and as always thank him for all his time, passion and bloody hard work.

Apart from one oddity him and a few others have discovered I can't imagine there's much more emulation accuracy that can be done without an incredibly long reverse engineering project with zero documentation go go on.

Maybe Phaeron will look at the wants list and maybe think about adding some of those things asked for but PLEASE do not use this post to put requests up...He has seen them all and that's enough.

Mclane - 04 09 10 - 20:17

> it's time to start flushing out the release backlog. We'll start with Altirra, ...
Well, this means a new release for VDub is on the way also, isn't it? =)

topolinik - 04 09 10 - 21:10

Thanks - your work on this emulator is appreciated by many!

ggn - 05 09 10 - 03:09

thnx Phaeron for this release :)

marcokitt2000 - 05 09 10 - 09:17

thanks for this release.
Gracias por esta version.

nsonic - 05 09 10 - 11:53

I'm logged on a linux machine at this moment and, out of curiosity, I tried to run Altirra binary under Wine. It works.

galu - 05 09 10 - 18:00

Thanks Phaeron for the release

hardmanm - 05 09 10 - 19:33

As always a big thanks Phaeron, now only if you could make it take over and play the games I'm rubbish at :)

Just a couple of more bits and it's perfection...

Mclane - 05 09 10 - 21:24

Hi Phaeron, any chance -->at some point

Mclane - 07 09 10 - 19:48

No clue what happened there??

The message should say

Phaeron, any chance at some point you could support this rom, it's a Yie Ar kung fu remake and really nice it is too.


Mclane - 07 09 10 - 19:49

For the people that do not use the Atari Age forums, there is a 1st beta for 1.8 out BUT its only really meant for people suffering crashes or help file error messages. Phaeron says in the thread he cannot recreate the problems posted himself so this is a 'blind fix', another words a best guess at fixing it.

So unless you have these issues I personally would just stick with 1.7 final..

Mclane - 07 09 10 - 19:55

For those wanting to see the Yie Ar Kung fu cart I meantioned earlier working then here a link to the game and the emu to run it, it's a cart that uses 640k of mem (and above), so far Atari++ runs it (I hate that emulator for its horrid interface). Here's the link to the package, no other roms needed, auto runs the game.

Mclane - 07 09 10 - 20:02

Thanks for the update Phaeron.
I noticed that in this new build of the emulator stopped rapidly spinning counter fps. :)

eagerly waiting for new updates.
really want to play on altirra in "Yie Another Kung-Fu.bin" so-I do not like the emulator Atari + +.

breaker - 08 09 10 - 16:16

I have good news and bad news.

The good news is that it was not hard to get the cartridge running. In fact, it took much longer to search for information on the cartridge bank circuitry than to implement it. The bad news is that the version in the cartridge does not work on Altirra and probably doesn't on a real Atari, because it appears to depend on a bug in Atari++. The main portion of the game uses a display list that is one scan line too long: 240 scan lines + wait for VBL. This works in Atari++, but it doesn't work in Altirra, Atari800, or my 800XL, where every other frame is blanked. The disk version at does appear to work.

Phaeron - 09 09 10 - 20:02

phaeron, thank you, the game now works.
you're simply the best in their field, many thanks.

please tell me, do you plan to add sound recording in wav?
can you add to support sap files for emulator?

I know that the sound recording more than once was discussed here and you do not love when to you something remind, but...
for me it's important.
I want to check recording cassettes in wav.

breaker - 09 09 10 - 20:25

Ah, sorry can not do anything with the screen flicker in the game.

I understand that this is a bug in the game cartridge?
To deceive this error in any way it is impossible?

breaker - 09 09 10 - 21:15

thanks for the update.

gr. marco

marcokitt2000 - 09 09 10 - 22:34

Phaeron thanks for the update, seems a weird choice to produce a cartridge that cannot play on a real machine (yours) or is that down to it being NTSC, could the cart work on a PAL machine?

I only ask as the code is designed purely for a PAL system, setting it to NTSC crashes the emulator.

Is he stealing that extra line to do something else?

Still thanks for looking at it, Kaz kindly pointed to the schematics in the Atari Age thread re the game.

@Breaker, don't start.....The reminders...yet again....

Mclane - 10 09 10 - 20:51

Excellent stuff.

Thanks for the update.

Dave - 13 09 10 - 07:48

Sorry for the delay... but I do have goodies:

5200 support. Switch the hardware mode to 5200 and enable 5200 controllers (you will have to reset mappings to get the default, sorry). You can use the atari5200.rom file most emulators use for the ROM kernel, or you can use the internal 5200 LLE kernel. I had to fix some CPU bugs in order to get some games to run, so it's possible I may have broken some 800/XL stuff.

As for the Yie Ar Kung Fu cartridge, it's hard to say. The game definitely requires PAL, but the nature of the bug is such that I don't believe it would work on a real PAL machine either, since the display list is limited by ANTIC to scan lines 8-247 even in PAL. Unfortunately, since this game requires a custom cartridge I can't test it on a real system. I don't want to put in a game specific hack for this because it's incorrect behavior as far as I can tell and that gets in the way of other programs.

Phaeron - 13 09 10 - 09:24

phaeron, you're just a genius, thank you.
I did not expect to see in altirra emulation 5200.
Now I'll sit test cartridges for 5200:)
and separate my gratitude for the addition of 16 kb of memory.

Continue further in the same spirit, you're the best!

breaker - 13 09 10 - 13:25

Hi Phaeron, excellent update as per usual.

Re Yie ar Kung Fu, the only reason I asked about it was that I saw it was a cartridge for sale so presumed it had to work on real hardware so thought that it should work on Altirra. I don't know if the custom cart can affect the way the DL's work?

As for hacking it in, thanks but no, I'm with you on precise emulation, I don't want other stuff failing because of a hack.

I wonder if further games using these carts are going to have the same problems?

Anyway, thanks again...

Mclane - 13 09 10 - 20:06

First casualty of 5200 is Bounty Bob, can't get any version to run, still trying some options but no joy so far..

Mclane - 13 09 10 - 20:22

tired, checked all the games on 5200.
for the first beta with emulation 5200 is not so bad.

Bounty Bob Strikes Back - neither version of the game is not working.
captain beeble - not valid management, the game can not start.
Final Legacy - the game does not work.
Jum's_Pong_ (2,000) _ (PD) - the game does not work.
Koffi_-_Yellow_Kopter_Demo-no version is not working as it should, no sound, no start.
popeye - does not work.
Quest For Quintana Roo - strange font in the title screen.
space dungeon - nondisconnectable shooting.
sport goofy - not working.

missile command
kaboom - management does not operate correctly.

Some games are voluntary movement left or right.

breaker - 13 09 10 - 22:13

Ah, yes, I forgot to mention one more detail.
the emulator does not support files with the extension *. A52
if not difficult to add them too.

breaker - 13 09 10 - 23:13

Breaker, some of your roms may be bad or making one or two chip choice for 5200.

Popeye works
Sport Goofy works
Final Legacy works but there's no input.
Gorf works but the control is bad
Quest for the Quinta roo is working but controls are iffy
Galaxian works but as you say the cobtrol forces to the right..

Mclane - 14 09 10 - 05:21

Mclane, about control, I have already spoken.
I think what's lacking in emulation devices such as track-ball and paddles.

Game: Popeye, Sport Goofy, and Final Legacy I do not work, although I already tried different settings, and several variants of dumps.
can you put me your dumps these three games?

breaker - 14 09 10 - 15:37

thanks for update Phaeron.

breaker - 20 09 10 - 19:06

sorry, error in the emulation 5200 and stayed.
direct sound sounds good, but the sound is jammed in the choice of options and settings.

Game bomb jake - does not work control, and twitches screen flickers.

phaeron, since you are engaged in sound processing, can add in an emulator such useful things as "sound filter" and "playback rate 8000 Hz - 48,000 Hz"?
it will be very useful and a good addition.

breaker - 20 09 10 - 19:35

phaeron thnx for the new beta :)

marcokitt2000 - 20 09 10 - 23:35

DirectSound support resolved all the subtle stuttering problems I've had with Altirra on a single core CPUs. Thanks. A DirectSound bug: The contents of the sound buffer is played in a loop when the emulation is paused.

Is there a chance for a quick & dirty "PAL Artficating (High)" setting? I mean: "blurriness without the NTSC color artifacting".

mg - 21 09 10 - 04:57

Phaeron, please tell me if you can somehow pull out the "quick save"?
I have long played in the game space dungeon and during the game often did "quick save".
after about the tenth save climbed error "data save invalid" - something like this was written.
I am a fit of rage ready to smash all ...
can not be maintained save, no hot keys to save and load.

I'm sorry that so harshly.
just annoying.


breaker - 21 09 10 - 21:12

Phaeron, Mclane, forget about what I wrote in last message.
It was just a failure ...

I found a very interesting bug in the emulation atari 5200.
error is associated with the game Montezuma's Revenge.

at the opening of the game emulator gives a picture here

but it's not all.
If you change the sound settings to Stereo, the picture will change.

Here's what a first game image

and so the picture will look after the inclusion of stereo.

in emulator atari800WinPlus 4.0 no this mistake.

breaker - 22 09 10 - 01:29

oh, forgot to explain.
pictures 2 and 3 are different change in the shimmering path.
this track is on the left.

breaker - 22 09 10 - 01:37

Breaker, no use putting my name on a bug report for a couple of reasons, 1, I have no more input into the emulator than you do, I'm just a keen tester like yourself and 2, my coding skills are that of a dead mouse.

Trust me, if I could code I'd be more than happy to help out :)

This next thing is nothing to do with you, it just made me laugh a little.

Today a couple of people asked if Phaeron could add 'drag and drop' support in Altirra, whats funny here is that it's already had drag and drop for ages now but these couple of people should really have tried it before asking it in my honest opinion. When I'm playing with an emulator I look to see how it all works, things like zip support, drag and drop etc etc, I'd never asked for an item to be added unless I was sure it didn't have it already.

Its the old saying, you can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Mclane - 22 09 10 - 03:01

Mclane, I read about the "drag and drop", do I know that this has already been added.
I wrote about the saves with hot, out of anger.
and then realized his mistake, and I do not want to conflict so I decided to apologize.

what do you think about the mistakes with the game "Montezuma's Revenge".

still want to ask, you have a Collection dumps for 5200?
you can upload files for 5200?
but then I found a lot of different files for atari 5200 and I do not know which ones are correct.

I know, I make a lot of unnecessary and superfluous.
but I love this emulator, I want to see this project alive.
I really want to do something.

breaker - 22 09 10 - 03:31

Sorry, got backed up for a moment.

The DirectSound support isn't finished, and you would have seen the warning if you had seen the message on AtariAge where I posted the test version. This is precisely why I don't like you guys fishing for links, because if the build has a known issue you have no idea. If you're going to keep doing that, then you run the builds at your own risk.

Montezuma's Revenge runs fine for me. Note that stereo POKEYs aren't supported on the 5200, so enabling them is invalid; I haven't put in all the checks to block illegal hardware setups yet. Also, changing the stereo setting causes the POKEYs to reset, which will usually break games and therefore you need to do a cold boot.

Updated version:

Bounty Bob Strikes Back: Fixed, cartridge mapper wasn't implemented.
Final Legacy: Fixed, was missing POKEY mirror addressing.
Galaxian: Confirmed, but looks like a sketchy auto-centering routine. You can sometimes get the stick to auto-recenter if you use a mouse.
Space Dungeon: Working correctly. This game requires two joysticks.
Bomb Jake: Known issue caused by DLI overrun, but no fix as of yet. This one is unfortunately very hard to debug, even with the game's source code. Use the disk version if you want to play it, as that version works (faster DLI routine).

Drag and drop has been modified: it does a boot image by default now, and hold SHIFT to open image instead.

Phaeron - 22 09 10 - 20:45

thanks for update Phaeron :)

Some minor bugs in the emulation atari 5200 is:

1) Quest for the Quinta roo.
wrong color and splash early in the game, a strange font.
in the Emulator atari800 winplus works fine.

2) Space dungeon.
I do not understand the emulator atari800 winplus used a one joystick for this game and the shot is not jammed.

3) Montezuma's Revenge.
Phaeron, can you use another version of the game?

when you run the game did not click.
you'll see that colors the game wrong.
see this game in the emulator atari800 winplus, there is a correct color scheme.

I put the dumps of the games and settings that I use.

breaker - 23 09 10 - 06:34

thnxx phaeron for the nice update :)

marcokitt2000 - 23 09 10 - 09:38

phaeron, may I ask you about a little addition to the emulator?
please, if it is not difficult to add in the "Input" option to enable / disable autofire.

breaker - 26 09 10 - 16:52

I need to rethink the way that the input system works in order to get in autofire and digital control of analog sticks. In the meantime, I got annoyed at the way that the input map dialog works and rewrote it:

The UI now splits the mappings by controller, making it easier to switch a set of mappings to another port, and it has a Rebind button to allow you to quickly rebind a series of entries.

Phaeron - 27 09 10 - 12:33

@breaker, there are two issues with your configuration that are causing the problems. First, you have the "memory - randomize on cold start" option on, which is triggering a bug in Quintana Roo and Montezuma's Revenge (these games rely on uninitialized DRAM power-on state). Second, your video mode is set to PAL. The 5200 SuperSystem was NTSC-only and never released in PAL, and it turns out that the longer VBLANK causes a line of junk at the top of the Space Dungeon screen. If you turn off both options you should have better results.

Phaeron - 27 09 10 - 22:22

phaeron, thanks for the update and for the tips.

but I prefer to use the PAL mode, so I prefer.
When I played the Atari many years ago, we have only used PAL mode.

very much look forward to more brand-new additions in Emulator.

breaker - 28 09 10 - 03:53

Phaeron, I can give you one piece of advice to improve the emulator?
You do not need to add anything new, but only slightly change the emulator.

can do so:
at the opening of the cartridge for the 5200 emulator itself, automatically switches to emulation 5200.
Also in this case should automatically be replaced by a controller with any currently in use at 5200 controller in port 1.

it would be a remarkable change, much easier to use the emulator.

breaker - 28 09 10 - 04:29

thnxx phaeron for the new update.

marcokitt2000 - 29 09 10 - 22:21

vbxe 5200?
And what for it?
There are cartridges for VBXE5200?

breaker - 30 09 10 - 02:44

There aren't any 5200 programs using VBXE right now, AFAIK... it was added as a return favor.

This version updates the input system to support relative/absolute positioning for analog axes and toggle/autofire modes for buttons. It also supports shift buttons so you can pack more functions on your controller than you have buttons. The Presets button has a sample mapping for the Xbox 360 controller that packs joystick port 1/2 and absolute/relative paddles onto one controller -- the left stick button switches between port 1/2 or absolute/relative and the right stick button switches joystick/paddle. You can do the same thing on any other mappings by binding buttons to an Input State controller to toggle flags and then selecting those flags under Condition for other controller entries.

Phaeron - 01 10 10 - 16:20

Hi Phaeron,

Games like galaxian and gorf on the 5200, are they broken because of a digital meets analogue error. In gorf it seems to be that any joypad movement is interperated as digital input ie it there's no logarithmic allowance so just goes from center to end?

For the life of me I can't remember the 5200 controller, visions of something like the Coleco controller come to mind.

Mclane - 01 10 10 - 21:44

Regarding Gorf, that was exactly the point of the last set of changes I made. The controller works that way because you have a digital input bound to the analog controller axis. Either switch the binding mode on the mappings from Default/Absolute to Relative, or bind an analog axis to it instead, i.e. Joy Axis 1H to Axis 0. There another possibility of the joystick gradually slewing toward an absolute position, but I decided not to implement that since it was difficult to tune and seemed ultimately useless. Absolute positioning works for movement games like Pitfall and Pengo, and relative works for cursor games like Missile Command.

That having been said, the control scheme in Gorf kinda sucks (stick pos = player pos on screen); I can't imagine it was all that playable on a real console, with that limited-range stick. Now you can use a mouse. :)

Galaxian is a different issue -- that is an auto-centering problem in the game, and I haven't figured out what causes it yet. Sometimes it fixes itself. The source code for Galaxian is available (!), but I haven't gotten around to studying it.

There is another mode that I added specifically for 800/XL paddles as an experiment, which is rotational control. Binding a pair of X/Y axes to Axis 1 and Axis 2 on a paddle controller will cause *rotation* on your gamepad to register as relative paddle movement. It was an interesting way to play Breakout. Bit hard on the thumb after a while, though.

Phaeron - 01 10 10 - 22:14


And yes, Gorf indeed sucks under that method...

Sorry about the slow uptake, at my age I barely remember my own name ;)

I'd certainly put Galaxian 5200 as a back burner issue, studying the source code for one game bug seems extreme and to be honest I've not seen a 5200 game that is different to it's Atari 800 version or port.

As always, thanks for your time and updates.

Mclane - 02 10 10 - 02:01

Hi Phaeron, dummy award two please..

I'm trying to setup my MS mouse for gorf, whatever way I set it up appeared as reversed directions when I play.

Could you please be so kind as to point out just once what I should be setting the rights, left up and down to. It may help others as well :)

Mclane - 02 10 10 - 02:19

Phaeron, thanks for another update.
auto-fire mode is very good.

with the input you've almost finished work.
You have only to make joysticks number 3 and number 4.

also remain the device type (Light gun, Light-pen, koala pad? trackball ...).

great job, keep so well and your emulator will be the best.

breaker - 02 10 10 - 04:17

I found the bug in 5200 Galaxian's controller calibration routine and added a workaround. The bug causes the game to split even/odd inputs instead of controller 1/2 as intended, but it typically works due to controller noise. I also fixed a regression in video recording with turbo.

> You have only to make joysticks number 3 and number 4.

It already supports this...?

Phaeron - 02 10 10 - 13:35

> I'm trying to setup my MS mouse for gorf, whatever way I set it up appeared as reversed directions when I play.
> Could you please be so kind as to point out just once what I should be setting the rights, left up and down to. It may help others as well :)

You don't want to bind it that way, i.e. left - left, right - right. That'll emulate a digital joystick with the mouse, which is clumsy at best. What you actually want to do is this:

Axis 1: Mouse Horiz (Relative)
Axis 2: Mouse Vert (Relative)
Button 1: Mouse LMB
Button 2: Mouse RMB

Phaeron - 02 10 10 - 13:39

> It already supports this ...?
phaeron, I tried to play all four of the controller setting in the game "Dynakillers".
but I did not work out, work only number 1 and number 2.

breaker - 02 10 10 - 14:44

maybe I'm doing something wrong?
Please see the image of the game and settings.

breaker - 02 10 10 - 15:03

Thanks Phaeron

Mclane - 02 10 10 - 22:26

Now THAT is how to play Gorf!!

Brilliant...And of course thank you!

Mclane - 02 10 10 - 23:05

Btw, thanks for the Protoype fix..

Mclane - 04 10 10 - 00:59

Mclane, about what prototype there is a speech?

breaker - 04 10 10 - 16:09

Its a 1mb demo

Was on a thread on Atari Age...

Mclane - 04 10 10 - 19:26

But on the emulator atari800winplus 4.0 this demo looks better.
On the emulator altirra other palette.
I did not manage to make a picture as on the emulator atari800winplus 4.0.

feel the difference.

left picture = altirra, right picture = Atari800Winplus 4.0

breaker - 04 10 10 - 20:25

I admit the right picture looks more vibrant but you have to ask if its the genuine colour palette or a false one that Atari800win creates.

Mind you, it makes no difference as you can adjust altirra palette to your own desire and recreate that look if you like it.

Mclane - 04 10 10 - 21:34

Just turning saturation up creates a near enough similar look.

Mclane - 04 10 10 - 21:39

and which of these two palettes more correct?
which version is closer to the present Atari?
Phaeron, you can add this palette, as in winplus 4.0?

breaker - 04 10 10 - 22:00

I don't remember my Atari being so saturated..

Mclane - 04 10 10 - 22:15

we have in gaming parlors in the 80s, too, was exaggerated color saturation.
around the image gets a small halo of luminescence, and the colors were bright and juicy.

on altirra unfortunately paler color palette similar to C64.

breaker - 04 10 10 - 22:22

I agree that the C64 was a much paler shade, when I saw my fist 64 I thought someone had adjusted the colours but you also have to take into account that most people used TVs so the colour you saw depended on how high the colour was turned on the TV, the same goes for composite.

Another words, depending on the TV setting it could look very different in every house.

Also worth mentioning that this has nothing to do about if the colours are correct, this is purely saturation.

Mclane - 06 10 10 - 00:40

You need to turn on PAL artifacting. Atari800Win automatically extends down chroma when PAL mode is enabled, while Altirra does not. This has to do with the PAL mechanism of inverting V on alternate scanlines and the ways that TVs decode color. You get an increase in saturation because you're no longer losing saturation due to the color values being clamped off (there is no such thing as negative light).

Phaeron - 06 10 10 - 10:05

artifacting makes the picture better, but all the same colors are paler than on the emulator Atari 800winplus.

and artifacts do not always look good.
for example, river raid, and boulder dash look good, but the panther looks unpleasant.

please tell me, you can add Pal artifacting (high)?
I also long been a dream to look at the emulation of the Atari through the filter scanlines.

breaker - 06 10 10 - 17:30

Thnxx Phaeron for the update.

here the link.

marcokitt2000 - 09 10 10 - 19:11

Just so people know what the update does..

"This version also supports intSDX 128 banking, so you can grab screenshots without working around the $D5xx banking issue."

All this relates to Altirra working With SpartaDOS X & Myide...

Mclane - 09 10 10 - 21:36

thanks for update Phaeron :)

breaker - 10 10 10 - 03:58

fix ?

breaker - 10 10 10 - 15:48

Yes, a fix for version 10

Mclane - 10 10 10 - 21:17

Hi Phaeron,

Would you ever reconsider your thoughts on additional OS support?

Before this just looks like a repeated request I shall as you ask explain why.

Your project as it started was purely to make an Atari emulator just as a proof of concept, after that many of us urged you to carry on and make it a full blown item which you very kindly did. Now since then you have expanded support for many emulated devices, other modifications from the real Atari world like ram mods and VXBE etc so with so many alternative OS replacements I wonder if now the emulator is so much advanced and technically innovative you might just rethink the otheros.rom idea and make it a full blown option where you maybe have a drop down of all the know OS replacements ala the 32 in 1 OS from the real atari world and make that a part of the emulator.

I just think the otheros.rom now looks shabby (not the best word) compared to the professional way that other parts are presented in the emulator. Also its a real world thing, 32 - 1 OS replacements exist so it would not be emulator only enhancement.

As always with any of my requests it's purely an Idea I am pitching to you, I won't repeat it and ask Breaker to PLEASE not use this as a reason to chain on another set of much repeated requests. I have been exact, given reason and that's the end of it...Cheers Paul.

Mclane - 11 10 10 - 20:52

Mclane, nothing I will not ask for my opinion it's useless.
I have long voiced all of their requests ...
I hope Phaeron remember that I asked ;)

What about support for other operating systems.
Mclane, I will fully support.
I also think that renaming a file to use in "Other.rom" - it is very inconvenient.
would be best to add the button to select a different OS.

although this choice of the author, this emulator, and he decide what to do.

personally I'm waiting for other things.
the main problem I think the lack of access to the options in full screen mode.
this among other things mentioned in atariage forum.
Read post number 36.

Well here, it has again turned out similar on the next request :(
Though I about it already wrote, but then me have not heard.

breaker - 11 10 10 - 22:33

I'm sure phaeron has a little note pad that has our names on it saying I HATE THESE GUYS!!! :)

Seriously, he knows we and others simply hope for the best in this superb emulator, he's taken note of all the things said and I'm sure anything that he see's as important / not too hard to implement will be given serious thought.

I just urge everyone to remember that it's not US having to do the coding, its not US having to find the time, it's not US using our social free time to do this and lastly it's not US who have to deal with millions of requests and therefore the motivation to do anything.

Once you grasp that you can never be disappointed by the emulator nor wish to annoy him...

Mclane - 11 10 10 - 23:18

I do not insist.
let him make an emulator as he wants.
if that poll on the forum was held after a altirra was added emulation of 5200.
and if by that time had a normal full-screen mode, then ...
I think altirra would have been in first place

breaker - 11 10 10 - 23:33

Oh I agree Breaker, totally agree with you and as you say it's his emulator to do as he wants, all we can do is support and make the odd suggestion.

Mclane - 11 10 10 - 23:36

If you are referring to the AtariMax 32-in-1 Warp OS module, it's a bit more than an OS switch as it actually includes a microcontroller. :)

There are a lot of knock on effects any time you go from "1" or "small number" to "many." In this case, they are:
* The ROM management code has to be rewritten. Currently it loads all of the ROM images on startup and maps them with explicit code.
* New UI is required to specify the locations of the ROM images.
* New UI is required to allow you to select the ROM images. It takes more effort to do this than to create a static menu.
* The command line code has to be rewritten. How do you specify that you want a specific image when the images themselves are now customizable? The program can't just use hardcoded switch names anymore. (This is also the reason that Shift+F1 no longer toggles the joystick: with the new flexible input system, there is no longer a hardcoded joystick mapping to toggle.)
* The setting save/load code has to be rewritten. Hint: You wouldn't want all of the IDs to shift when an image is removed in the middle.
* The autoswitching code has to be rewritten. Currently, the front end detects when you have selected a ROM kernel that is incompatible with hardware settings and fixes one of them so you don't just get a strange crash. That doesn't work when the front end no longer knows what is the acceptable or desired image. (Is it XL rev 4, XL rev 5, or that strange ROM rumored to be from some PAL machine?)

All of this in order to support a feature which seems a bit niche. I don't doubt that there are scenarios where this is useful, but I have to ask: how is it that you need to swap through so many images so frequently? Most programs run on the 800 XL/XE kernel which is both NTSC/PAL capable, and generally the rest run on NTSC OS-B, with a few needing PAL OS-A. Those are generally the main ROM images available; sometimes people throw in a custom kernel ROM, such as QMEG. I'm not sure I understand the use case here, which would be important in implementing such a feature. Is it to test ROM images, or to verify that a program being written absolutely works across a large variety of OS versions, etc.? Is it just to avoid renaming files in the rare case where an extra ROM image does need to be tested, and so is just a paths dialog required?

I think the person is talking about something different than what you are thinking of. You're talking about getting UI in full-screen mode, for which I've already explained why that is a lot of work. He seems to be talking about NOT wanting UI in full-screen mode, and I don't understand since the program has supported launching that way for a while (/f). It's possible that he doesn't know that flag exists or is using an old version that had some bugs with full-screen mode switching. Since no one ever asked me directly about this, I don't know the circumstances and for all I know he might be running an ancient version ( still has 1.4!).

Phaeron - 11 10 10 - 23:38

Possible bug?

Was just on the Atarimax forums having a look for new 8meg car files and grabbed a few just in case.

This and a couple others (8Multi3-Synapse) do not load, it comes up from the car file as a mode 40 unsupported cart and then oddly the bin file in the same zip does work but seems to think its a 1M Atarimax cart.

Mclane - 11 10 10 - 23:39

is this just an bits & bytes thing?

Mclane - 12 10 10 - 00:02

Ah, I understand that will occupy a lot of time from you.
I believe you will do support of options in full-screen a mode in last turn.
probably should just wait.

What about "other.rom".
Why rewrite the entire interface of the emulator?
You can enter easily.
Change the option to System ---> Firmware ---> other
on button "Other OS".
pressing the "Other OS" will explorer where you can choose any other OS.

breaker - 12 10 10 - 00:05

@Phaeron, in all honesty I swap between very OS roms but just feel the need to sit down and manually rename an OS rom does not seem in line with the professional way the rest of the emulator works. The mech that Breaker mentions (the ability to browse for an OS rom) was something I said at the time you added the otheros.rom and I still think its just all that's needed. Naturally with the extent you have explained It I don't want a. too much work for you or b. the need for massive rewrites.

So I'm happy there is an option for me to use my beloved Omnimon and if that's the only way it will be then I'm still more than happy. As said, I just feel that asking the user to rename a rom or have multiple versions of otheros.rom just seems clunky compared to the way the rest works. But, by the way you described the work needed then I would rather you spent time on other parts of the emulator if possible.

Mclane - 12 10 10 - 03:25

As for the Full screen with UI, quite a few emulators require you to come back into windowed mode to change configuration so it's not exactly an unknown practice. I personally assign mouse gestures via a program called Strokeit! which do the most common needed changes ie reset, OS change, SIO on or off etc while in fullscreen, to be honest I could add ones to take me in and out of full screen if I was that bored.

One thing still intrigues me, the addition of the VBXE 5200 code, you said it was sort of a favour at the time. Seems a weird favour as the 5200 is basically an 800 / XL without a keyboard.

Just us being nosey :)
The idea is nice but you have mentioned it before re the way your code works.

Mclane - 12 10 10 - 03:37

Oops, the very last line got dropped down from the request about full screen UI.

Mclane - 12 10 10 - 03:38

I suggested the easiest option open other OS.
If you like my version, you can do something like this.

turned out not very pretty, but I'm in a hurry.
this picture I made with paint and ResHacker.

yet it would be nice if you see the information on file to open.
it was made in the atari 800 winplus.

breaker - 12 10 10 - 04:08

I had forgotten about OmniMon. (I assume you're using OmniMon XL, since I believe the original was an 8K image bank-switched into 4K.) I'll look at putting in the OS path dialog... shouldn't be too bad.

As for the AtariMax images, those are disk images, not cartridge images; by selecting the attach cartridge command you're overriding the normal auto-detection. The cartridge mapping dialog comes up blank because it can't find any mappers that match the size of the image. The disk is a MaxFlash image, so you need to attach a new 8Mbit flash cartridge and then boot the disk to flash it.

The VBXE code didn't require a lot of changes to support the 5200, just a different memory window and a few changes to MEMAC. The 5200, however, is a bit different than just an 800/XL without a keyboard, because the memory map is different, there's no PIA, the controllers are different, and the OS is different.

Phaeron - 12 10 10 - 09:54

Yes OmnimonXL, my weapon of choice...I was like a kid at Xmas waiting for mine to arrive from the US (Texas iirc). Later a mate built mine into a multi banked OS with a nice switch on my case.

Good times....

Re the Maxi stuff, yes, when I flashed them virtually from the ATR the files were fine, normally tho all the .car files ran aok, just these few just refused and I wondered why. Thanks for the explanation.

Re the 5200 VBXE, I just wondered why someone wanted it, as far as I know it's not a real world mod and I just thought it was a strange request :)

Mclane - 12 10 10 - 21:29

> Re the 5200 VBXE, I just wondered why someone wanted it, as far as I know it's not a real world mod and I just thought it was a strange request :)

Prototype, IIRC. It's actually fairly common to have an emulator running long before hardware is final, for development purposes.

New test version, btw:

This version warns you if you have unsaved cartridge or disk images. I also enabled themed UI controls and rewrote part of the window frame code to reduce unnecessary edge borders. There are a bunch of CPU fixes in this version, too.

Phaeron - 13 10 10 - 14:27

Thanks Phaeron...Appreciated as always..

Just one last little question if I may, how much different is a 7800 to say a 5200, that is if you know?

Also, I'm NOT alluding to asking you to add it, I really am just wondering and you seem to be a guru re the hardware.

Mclane - 13 10 10 - 22:17

Phaeron, thanks for your excellent work.

Mclane, atari 7800 is much different from the atari 5200.
did not persuade the author to add emulation 7800.
enough such emulators as "pro system" and "emu 7800.

maybe I'm not intervene in his case, but Phaeron is still a lot of work altirra.
emulator is still very unfinished, a lot is missing.

breaker - 14 10 10 - 02:29

Do not leave the project to record on tape. Please: D

nsonic - 14 10 10 - 02:33

I am also really looking forward to record sound in wav.
but I'll wait patiently as it takes.

Phaeron, a list of changes you have specified:
> UI: Enabled themed controls.

but I could not find the option where you can change themes.

breaker - 14 10 10 - 02:55

thanks for the update phaeron :)

marcokitt2000 - 14 10 10 - 04:37

Breaker, if you read what I posted I am purely asking him if he knows the technical differences ie more sprites, better display listing etc etc.

I made a point of saying that I am not asking him to emulate it and that I was just asking him as he has a fantastic knowledge of the systems.

Mclane - 14 10 10 - 04:40

Hey guys, what did I tell you about not asking for things over and over?

> but I could not find the option where you can change themes.

This is for the theme in Windows. Buttons and sliders in dialogs now use the Windows XP/Vista/7 theme.

> Just one last little question if I may, how much different is a 7800 to say a 5200, that is if you know?

Very different. The 7800 is essentially an expanded 2600, with more memory, a new Maria chip added alongside the old TIA and RIOT, and the 6502 speed raised from 1.1MHz to 1.7MHz. Sound-wise it's weaker than the 5200 as it only has the TIA sound instead of POKEY, but graphics-wise it's arguably more powerful. Unlike the 2600 and 5200 models of having high-resolution, small-size, highly-motile sprites on top of a large, lower-resolution playfield, the 7800 simply only has playfield. However, the playfield has higher resolution and color depth (4 colors at 320 resolution or 16 colors at 160 resolution, versus 1.5 at 320 and 5 at 160 for the 5200) and more importantly, it can do overlapping layers. This means that the 7800 can do much larger and more colorful sprites. This is done through a more powerful display list that tells Maria which layers to draw on each scanline. The downside is that it requires more DMA cycles to read this display list and more CPU cycles to update it. The graphics architecture is similar in design to the Jaguar's object processor, which also uses a rendering display list and twin line buffers. It's a neat architecture, but it might have been a bit ahead of the hardware capabilities of the time, and there was no way it could compete with the Japanese tiled sprite hardware for sheer number of moving objects on screen, i.e. NES.

Phaeron - 14 10 10 - 08:58

And that's why I asked you..A man who knows his machines.

Shame, they got it right with the 2600 and then it was all down hill. Thank you for that info.

Mclane - 14 10 10 - 19:47

Phaeron, I found a bug in the emulation.
in the game "oils well", at the level of five eminent inaccuracy.
at the top of the screen to the left of the time counter is visible shimmering line.
this should not be.
emulator atari 800winplus that there is no error.

I attach a small video in which the error is visible.

Please fix the error.

breaker - 14 10 10 - 20:57

Scroll down to 23 02 10 17:29.

You might want to start checking against Atari800 2.x instead of using Atari800Win(PLus), which uses an old 1.x core. There are several major emulation bugs in Atari800WinPLus that have since been fixed in Atari800.

> Shame, they got it right with the 2600 and then it was all down hill.

I don't know if I'd say that. The 2600 was a good design for the technology available at the time, and despite being a huge PITA to code for, programmers were able to use its quirks to extend its lifetime considerably. There was no way that a CPU timing driven graphics architecture like the 2600 was going to survive for long, though; even the 7800 only grudgingly uses the 2600 hardware in 7800 mode for sound and I/O.

Here's the problem: If they were to extend the 8-bit line, Atari would have had to continue to position it as either a home computer (XL/XE) or game console (XEGS). For a home computer, the Atari ST strategy made sense in hindsight as almost everyone else was going 16-bit with the 68000 (except IBM, which screwed us with the 8088). For a game console, the big problem eventually became the NES, which had a poorer palette (56 colors vs. the Atari's 128/256), but higher resolution graphics (4 color tiles @ 256/320 resolution), much better sprites, and an effectively faster CPU due to split SRAM/VRAM. The best counter I can think of would have been for Atari to rework the XE architecture to support a separate VRAM bus and/or faster memory and update ANTIC/GTIA to support more tile palettes and more sprites (or at least vertically scrollable sprites!). And that's assuming they wouldn't have gotten steamrollered anyway due to game selection. I spent far more time during my childhood playing Super Mario Bros. 3 than I care to admit.

In the end, the Amiga ended up being the 16-bit Atari I wanted, and that only lasted until cheap PCs took over the marketplace, and we got stuck with crappy overdesigned display hardware that didn't even have a working vertical blank interrupt.

Phaeron - 14 10 10 - 21:21

Phaeron, sorry.
I thought that this is a bug in the emulation.
although when I played the atari I did not notice the error.
may simply have forgotten.

breaker - 14 10 10 - 21:31

I loved my A1200 to death, it simply was a joy to use, the copper list was again another fine DLI update idea from the Atari dev team (soon to be commodore dev team). Strange idea by both Atari and Commodore to try on taking on the business market in such a half arsed way.

I really wish the Amiga had taken on and won, the OS was such a treat.

Mclane - 15 10 10 - 02:11

Small bug / issue

Drag and drop broken.. (unless I've missed a comment elsewhere?)

Mclane - 20 10 10 - 01:09

Mclane, everything is fine.
Drag and drop works fine.
I just checked a few files.

breaker - 20 10 10 - 01:39

Hmm..Thanks for checking..I just tried version 1.7 and its fine but test 12 would not allow it...

I'll have another look..

Mclane - 20 10 10 - 01:50

Ahh...For some reason it's not letting me drop from a Directory Opus screen, windows explorer is fine...

It's never been a problem before and allows the same files from a Opus screen on 1.7??

Mclane - 20 10 10 - 01:54

what's the problem?
I checked on the 1.8 test 12, Drag and drop works fine.

Mclane, what version of windows are you using?
I use windows 7 x64 ultimate.

breaker - 20 10 10 - 01:59

Just traced the 1.8 beta's and it works fine up to beta 4, then on 5 I cannot drag and drop from opus?

Mclane - 20 10 10 - 02:01

hmm, I do not even know what to expect.
I am specially downloaded version 1.8 test 5, and I drag and drop files works fine, no errors.
may be the case in settings?

breaker - 20 10 10 - 02:07

Done some more testing, the problem seems to be Directory Opus for some reason, I've tried using it as an explorer replacement mode and just as a stand alone and both won't allow drag and drop after 1.8beta 4. I just get the old no entry icon on the screen.

I can use Opus to send a file to Altirra and it works fine but drag and drop is stopped. I also noticed that even although I could drag and drop on version 4 it still had an issue, you had to manually reset the emulator whereas if you drag and drop from a windows explorer screen it does the reset for you.

All weird, so it's not Altirra at fault as far as I can tell, just seems a shame Opus does not like it in that way as I use Opus for everything, it's a wonderful explorer alternative, you can just do EVERYTHING from it all on one screen...

Mclane - 20 10 10 - 02:22

Just sat with a bunch of emulators and all allow d&d from an Opus window..Now confused.

Just asking the opus people to have a look...

Mclane - 20 10 10 - 03:03


I've debugged the drag & drop issue between Directory Opus and Altirra 1.8-test12 and I think I know where the problem is.

In ATUIDragDropHandler::DragEnter and ATUIDragDropHandler::Drop (both in uidragdrop.cpp), Altirra sets etc.lindex=0 before calling pDataObj->QueryGetData. Opus rejects this as invalid, expecting -1 to be passed, and returns DV_E_LINDEX.

My interpretation of MSDN is that -1 is the correct value for etc.lindex in this situation. However, Explorer allows both 0 and -1, and is what most people will test against, so Opus gains nothing from the stricter test.

(In fact, Opus already allows 0 for the GetData call; only the QueryGetData is problematic. Opus used to be strict about both but relaxed its GetData check after it was found to break drops on some tools. The strict check in QueryGetData was overlooked because it hadn't caused any (known/reported) problems until now.)


- IMO, Altirra should change its DragEnter and Drag methods to set etc.lindex=-1 instead of 0.

- Additionally, the next version of Opus should relax its checks and allow lindex=0. (An Opus update went out a few days ago so it might be a while before the next one, FWIW.)

- While the problem will be fixed so long as either program is changed, it makes sense to change both as there are lots of other tools out there on both sides of drag & drops.


Leo Davidson (link) - 20 10 10 - 05:33

Hey, thanks for debugging that drag and drop problem for me. I probably forgot to set it originally and then added code to zero it in a fix-uninited-vars pass.

While I was at it, I made it so you can change your mind on the shift key during the drag, which you couldn't do before. This version also contains the start of R: emulation, fixes some bugs in the new docking frame code, adds a 2600 cartridge warning (since some morons mixed 2600 and 5200 cart images in the same directory), improves the history window in the debugger, and allows mapping the PC mouse as an Atari joystick.

Phaeron - 20 10 10 - 20:15

Thanks for that Leo, I do hope Phaeron did not mind the slight intrusion into the code but as a fellow Amiga guy I hope he understands how useful Opus is, me and a mate beta tested it for Greg back in the day and it's been king of the explorer replacements for as long as its been around.

Just keen to see everything working together, a bit self centered I know but meant well..

Mclane - 20 10 10 - 20:19

LOL...Thanks Phaeron, beat me to it by a min...

I know it was not truly a genuine bug but it's nice to have it fixed...

Mclane - 20 10 10 - 20:22

thanks for another update, Phaeron.

let me ask you a few questions:
1) What is R: Device?
through this connector connects the modem?
it would give access to the Internet or why it was used?

2) you have added emulation of 2600 or were cartridges for the atari 5200 and 2600?

I also want to ask about a small addition.
once you have made a pause by pressing F9 can add a message on the screen "PAUSE" in large letters?
I think it would be so beautiful.
and then randomly you press on F9 and it is unclear emulator freezes or pauses included.

thanks again for the update.

breaker - 20 10 10 - 21:42


In order to use a modem on the Atari, a modem software handler, or R: device
handler, must be loaded into memory.

There are several families of R: handlers, corresponding to the different ways
in which a modem may be attached to the Atari.

Except for family #7 below, these handlers are used in one of two ways.
Either they are (A) loaded into memory from DOS just before running the main
terminal application, or (B) the terminal program is appended to the handler,
so that in practice, a single file is loaded from DOS which contains both the
R: device handler and the application itself.

1) 835/1030/XM301 modems. Atari-only modems, interface via SIO

2) MPP/Supra modems. Atari-only modems, interface via joystick port

3) SX212 modem/R-Verter Serial Bus Modem Adapter.
Standard Hayes-type RS-232 modems, interface via SIO

As for 2600 emulation, no, what people have done is mix the rom files of 2600 and 5200 together, ALtirra now detects a 2600 rom and issues a warning.

I presume Phaeron was getting bug reports about the 5200 emulation only to find out the files used were 2600 ones...

Mclane - 20 10 10 - 21:49

I agree a notification the the emulator is in Pause mode would be good.

Mclane - 20 10 10 - 21:51

Yeah, thanks for the explanation, Mclane. :)

it would be just fine if the inscription "PAUSE" show more iridescent letters, such an effect in the game "Mr DO!"

breaker - 20 10 10 - 22:01

Re the Pause, yup totally agree, not sure about the letters but some sign would be nice even if its just on the title bar but on screen would be better.

Mclane - 20 10 10 - 22:27

Yes, another disadvantage with a pause.
if you press the key "F9" in full screen mode, the emulator throws out the window.

breaker - 22 10 10 - 21:46

That's no so bad, most people press pause to do something else, it would be fair to presume it might be something on the computer that you want to do. Obviously if its to go to the toilet then yes its a little annoying but not soo bad.

Mclane - 22 10 10 - 21:52

Okay it's not so important.
Mclane, I want to ask where I can download "telelink I", "telelink II" or other programs that are used with R: Device?

More interesting to me, because the modem transmits The figures in the network, so.
and altirra I do not see the connection to the network.
it will be implemented?

breaker - 22 10 10 - 22:18

But I have no idea how far the R: emulation is complete

Mclane - 23 10 10 - 03:27

Mclane, thank you very much.
I also found the program:
telelink - the first version?
Unfortunately for some reason, does not run.
and SmartTerminal - works fine

breaker - 23 10 10 - 13:42

Lazy (really lazy) request :)

Suppose you want to run a 5200 rom, when you pick the rom as a 5200 one could the emulator check to see if the system is setup as a 5200 and if not switch to it?

Same in reverse...

Mclane - 24 10 10 - 00:29

Mclane, you mean if you run any game for 5200 on the emulator, the emulator itself should switch to 5200?

breaker - 24 10 10 - 02:40

sort of, if when you chose a rom image you will get the window up to pick what type of rom it is, if you choose 5200 then I'm hoping phaeron will add a check to see if the system is set for the cartridge picked and automatically switch it over if not.

The same thing could apply if you chose an ordinary 8K or whatever size cartridge, if the system is set to 5200 then set it back to the default 800xl setting.

I know its lazy but its a small step towards auto configuring the system.

Mclane - 24 10 10 - 03:56

Not much new, mainly some debugging stuff. I did fix F9 popping out of full screen mode, and this version also supports the NVSRAM in the Telelink II cartridge (which is used to store dial numbers for a modem you don't have).

You may have trouble running Telelink I if it is a 2K EPROM image. In that case:

copy /b telelink.epr+telelink.epr+telelink.epr+telelink.epr telelink.rom

I know about the issue with pause, but it's tricky to display anything at that point. I have to think about how to fix that.

800-to-5200 switching isn't too bad, but I'm worried about going the other way, because it's not clear what hardware settings to use. I might have to cache a completely different set of settings between 5200 and 800 mode.

Phaeron - 24 10 10 - 10:57

Thanks Phaeron, you the best developer.

The small error is found out:
If in menu System to press a pause a mouse (not key F9) is will not work.

breaker - 24 10 10 - 15:55

Phaeron, can I still ask you about two small improvements?
if not difficult to add in the next build of the emulator options:
High priority
and run one copy of the emulator.

breaker - 24 10 10 - 16:33

Phaeron, thanks for thinking about the lazy suggestion I made, with the switching back to 800 mode issue, would just going to a default 64K 800XL be an issue?

I suggest that because its probably the most universal setting game wise, I can't for the life of me see any way that you could exactly choose the correct settings for a game bar doing a crc / md5 database of every game and we all know that's way silly an idea for just about every reason. So maybe a hit and hope on the 800XL idea?

Mclane - 24 10 10 - 20:32

@breaker, the one instance was requested sometime last year by me so its on the list or was deemed a bad idea, best we not annoy phaeron with repeats :)

High priority can be set by yourself manually or I think there's programs to auto do it for you. I'm just saying this in the meantime while Phaeron thinks about it if you want to do it now.

Mclane - 24 10 10 - 20:37

Mclane, I just now played on an emulator and accidentally started a second copy of the emulator.
so I thought it would be nice to be able to turn off a lot of runs the program or include a lot of runs.

let Phaeron decides to do it or not.
I'm not forcing anyone to do it.
I only advise you how to do better.

I remember some time ago all were against when I asked to add 16к memory.
I remember as you did not wish to add a pause.
But, times vary.
Now these things are added.
Who knows that will be further. ;)

breaker - 24 10 10 - 20:58

I agree with you but lets not think its our job to annoy Phaeron, you may have got a few bits added but it does not mean everything you ask for will be no matter how many times you ask :)

There was a recent large feud in the Snes community regarding the emulator Bsnes, it's author has now decided to remove himself from public discussions about the emulator for many reason but one was the amount of abuse and annoyance he got from people posting an moaning about the emulator.

Now I know it's not like that on here but as you say, times can vary and it does not take long to gather ground.

The point of all this :- lets keep phaeron happy :)

Mclane - 25 10 10 - 00:11

Thanks for the update Phaeron.

I hope maybe if it is possible to add SIO 2 1050 in altirra for support real atari 1050 floppy's.

Gr. Marco

marcokitt2000 - 26 10 10 - 01:53
Post #14
posted 23 cartridge for Atari.
2 cartridges do not work.

dynakillers.rom - altirra emulator hangs.
on the emulator atari800winplus this cartridge works fine.

diamond gos v1.0.rom - unable to run this dump.

breaker - 27 10 10 - 17:04

Good work there Breaker, Diamond V2 does work on Win Plus, can't get it to run on Altirra but there's a nagging feeling I've seen Phaeron post about it?

PS in what way did you get the spartados roms to work?

Mclane - 27 10 10 - 21:07

While look around I found that The Writers tool rom does not work on Altirra, its an OSS 034M cart that runs with a disk in the drive, must be it's own extensions disk tho.

Mclane - 28 10 10 - 02:56

Here the link to the whole 'kit'

Mclane - 28 10 10 - 02:59

Diamond 64K and Williams 64K mappers were missing, and OSS 3034M mapper was broken.

Unfortunately, the answer on SIO 2 1050 is pretty much no -- the timing for it is too critical. It's already difficult enough to maintain accurate timing when doing nothing but drive emulation, which is why software-only solutions sometimes fail and why the Atarimax USB solution uses a microcontroller.

Phaeron - 28 10 10 - 18:08

Oops, I uploaded from the wrong branch.

Phaeron - 28 10 10 - 18:48

And what list of changes in бета 15?
I do not understand, where was gone маппер from Williams 64K?
In the emulator atari 800winplus 4.0 this mappers is supported.
You can ask the information on a mapper authors atari 800winplus.

if you press the pause button of the mouse in the menu system, a pause is not working.

breaker - 28 10 10 - 19:00

Phaeron, sorry, I wrote about the bugs in the beta number 15.
I look at beta number 16 all fixed.
Game dynakillers and diamond gos v1.0 - work perfectly.
but the error with a click of the mouse pauses - remained.

I would also like to ask.
there is a dump of the game "PicnicParanoia" - he is working or broken?
or not supported by the emulator?

breaker - 28 10 10 - 19:19

I hope I'm not too annoying.
but I became very interested.
another question

Phaeron, you want to add Support sap files in emulator?
I would be very glad, that would be great.
the first emulator to support sap music.

breaker - 28 10 10 - 19:31

thanks for update and thnx for the info sio 2 1050.

marcokitt2000 - 28 10 10 - 19:39

Thanks as always for the super support...

Can I ask if the sparta dos roms are supported, if yes, how do you see them work Phaeron?

As for the sap support, I must admit it would be a nice 'extra' at some point way in the future if you had time.

Mclane - 28 10 10 - 20:42

Mclane, I managed to run only a sparta dos.
Use the mapper intSDX128.

breaker - 29 10 10 - 02:18

Bit of a 5300 check up

5200 drag and drop problem carts, they show insert 5200 cartridge when D&D'ed but if you select them via attach cartridge then you get the cart type selector and work fine..

Atari PAM Diagnostics (U) (v2.3)
Barroom Baseball (U) (Proto)
Gremlins - (US)
Mario Brothers - (US)
Meebzork (U) (Proto)
Microgammon SB - (US)
Miniature Golf - (US)
Pac-Man - (US)
Pengo - (US)
QIX - (US)
Realsports Baseball - (US)
Realsports Soccer - (US)
Realsports Tennis - (US)
Star Raiders - (US)
Vanguard - (US)
Xevious - (US)

Movement issues are most likely me not know the correct setup for them so if that's the issue I apologise..

Captain Beeble not accepting the start key
Kangaroo - (US) Has the Galaxian similar issue with wanting to go left, I'm sure there's a way of mapping it better in the emulator but reporting it incase its a bug?

PAM Diagnostics V2.0 (1983) (Atari) Crashes

Roadrunner (1982) (Atari) Unable to start? Same on Win Plus so my just be a self playing demo?

Tempest (U) (Proto) Starts but can't be hurt by the rim runners..Is proto, maybe not added that part?

Wizard of Wor - (US) No moverment?

Yellow Submarine Demo (1982) (Atari) (Prototype) crash

Activision Decathlon, The (U) movement broken, only moves once

Mclane - 29 10 10 - 03:02

Thanks Breaker, I somehow wondered which one you got going, didn't try that one..

Mclane - 29 10 10 - 03:10

Mclane, I advise you - never use the Goode sets.
best use of the collection found in the network.

game "Captain Beeble" - works, look in the folder 8bit conversion.
game "Roadrunner" - works fine.

breaker - 29 10 10 - 03:17

for the game "Wizard of Wor" - I think it uses the joystick to number 2, so as to atari 8bit.
but altirra not support two joysticks for 5200.

breaker - 29 10 10 - 03:20

well done breaker, that's why I check your reports so that two sets of people have had a chance to sift out any mistakes. Less for Phaeron to work on..

As for the roms, I've collected so many sets over the years I have no idea what set is what now :)

Mclane - 29 10 10 - 04:53

Small note, beeble is fine but Roadrunner simply plays itself even on your rom.

Tried every key (I think)

Mclane - 29 10 10 - 05:18

Scratch that, didn't realise you have to sit through that long intro before road runner appears.

Both our versions are ok then...

Mclane - 29 10 10 - 05:20

Kangaroo: Probably the same code. I could try a more general fix by making the digital mode slightly noisy, but that's a bit of a distasteful fix (although a bit more realistic).

5200 Tempest is a prototype that lacks collision detection:

Yellow sub demo: Works for me, use 16K mapper (one chip).

Activision Decathlon: Confirmed. This game appears to be REALLY touchy about input; it works fine if you use analog. I'll have to look at this in more detail.

PAM Diagnostics V2.0: Looks like this may be incomplete; I'm seeing code jumps that suggest it was a 32K cartridge.

Captain Beeble: The version that Mclane had is broken -- it uses a keyboard reading mode which does not work on 5200 (keyboard debounce enabled). breaker's ROM image has been patched to fix the problem.

> but altirra not support two joysticks for 5200.

It does, actually. You need to set it up.

Phaeron - 29 10 10 - 12:48

Yes, sorry about the beeble and yellow sub, breaker posted a better set of roms, my set showed them as good although I also had flagged bad dumps too so trusted it.

These control issues are a pain, for you I mean, sorry to burden...

Mclane - 29 10 10 - 20:54

Oops, forgot to apologise for the wild goose chase on the drag and drop, again down to odd roms. I wish when groups released 'sets' that they were indeed perfect sets and not just different to another groups release set.

Mclane - 29 10 10 - 21:04

Just been setting up all the various joysticks variation for the 5200 :)

Some absolute, some relative...At least I can play the game as meant. Cheers for all the options...

Mclane - 29 10 10 - 23:52

thanks for update Phaeron.
you as always on top :)
I understand this release fixes beaten in emulation of 5200?

Mclane, I spread my clothing collection cartridge atari 8bit.
You can add any more dumps cartridges that are not in my Collections?
if you find yourself in something interesting, I'll be very grateful.

breaker - 30 10 10 - 01:50

Phaeron, you work recently over controllers (Joystick, paddles, 5200 controller much...).
I know that you do not love when I ask you about new additions, but, I very much wish to ask.
You can add in the emulator device support "Light gun"?
I very much would like to look some games (for example bug hunt) which are for the present inaccessible for altirra.
I with pleasure will test such games.

breaker - 30 10 10 - 02:18

a mouse gun would be fun, for completeness only, theres so few lightgun games to make it a must tho.

Mclane - 31 10 10 - 00:18

Phaeron, a request but not a biggie...Can the buttons that you choose what cart type or size be double clickable at some point please. Just makes the selection faster or less complicated (yes I can hear the words lazy person in your head as you read this :)

Most UI's offer both ways..


Mclane - 31 10 10 - 00:39

Mclane, not too little has been released games supporting ligh gun.
very sad fact that emulators atari was released quite a lot, but support all such devices only atari 800winplus.

A list of games supporting different devices:

breaker - 31 10 10 - 17:00

Must admit thats more than I remember, don't know if its enough to tempt Phaeron but he's seen it now and we should leave it at that I feel.

Mclane - 31 10 10 - 23:16

phaeron, I found four dump cartridges that do not work on the emulator altirra, but work on the emulator Atari 800winplus.

berzerk.rom ------ only the saver of game, does not reach game process.
express! v1.12.rom ----- hangs.
Fortune Hunter [Romox].rom ----- it is not started.
the writer's tool.rom ----- it is not started.

to take these games here.

please look at these cartridges, and if you can, fix the errors.

breaker - 02 11 10 - 00:32

Breaker, writers tool needs the extension atr in D1: for it to work..

Berzerk looks like a proto

Mclane - 02 11 10 - 01:00

Mclane, just want any blank disk in drive number 1?
another question, is the program "atariwriter" - this, too, same as the program "atariwriter word processor"?

and, surprise !

whats new ?

breaker - 02 11 10 - 01:10

uh, amazing!
Phaeron, you're a genius!
Thank you, thank you 1000 times!
Light gun, light-pen is added.

is still preliminary, Pending?

breaker - 02 11 10 - 01:16


It must be the extensions atr from that zip.

Its a form of protection so must be that disk.

And yes, Atariwriter is the same as that other one.

Mclane - 02 11 10 - 01:55

Mclane, thanks.
you real friend. :)
light-gun, pen are not completed yet.
There is no index (target) for management of these devices.

With impatience I wait for continuation.
Phaeron, really good programmer.

breaker - 02 11 10 - 02:09

Just having a play with the new beta, trying Barnyard Blaster but not having a lot of success. Bound it to ST mouse port one but all I get is auto firing bullets.

Not sure what to do here, help :)

Mclane - 02 11 10 - 02:15

My Pleasure Breaker, If I can help I will.

Mclane aka Paul

Mclane - 02 11 10 - 03:19

your name is Paul?
my name is Sergey.
I live in Russia in Omsk.

breaker - 02 11 10 - 04:22

The light pen/gun support is functional but there are no presets for it, so you wouldn't have known how to configure it. The light pen/gun controller has three buttons:

Button 1: Gun trigger
Button 2: Pen switch
Button 3: Aim at screen

Button 3 must be bound for it to work. For a light gun, this should generally be bound to None (Inverted) so that it's always down. For a light pen, or a light gun where you want to be able to aim off-screen, button 3 should be bound to a button in either Toggle or Inverted mode.

For the XEGS gun games, this mapping should work:

Light Pen/Gun
-- Axis 1 -> Mouse Pos X (light pen)
-- Axis 2 -> Mouse Pos Y (light pen)
-- Button 1 -> Mouse LMB
-- Button 3 -> None (Inverted)

Binding either the Mouse Pos X/Y sources will cause the mouse to work in non-capture mode with a target reticle instead of the usual click-to-capture mode. Different games have different hard-coded offsets, so you will need to use the Input > Light Pen/Gun menu option to adjust the timing.

Tablet support works in a similar way, but bind Mouse Pos X/Y (pad) to Axis 1/2 instead. Button 1 is pen, button 2/3 are tablet, and button 4 moves the pen on and off the tablet. Bind tablet button 4 the same way as light pen/gun button 3.

You can use new Mouse Pos input sources with paddle controllers, too, btw, if you like screen-based positioning better.

Phaeron - 02 11 10 - 09:28

Thanks for the instructions Phaeron, much needed for a brainless old fool like me :)

I presume you will update the chm file with these examples at some point, might save you a lot of emails :)

Hey Sergey, yes its Paul....Keep up the good work!

Mclane - 02 11 10 - 21:48

Phaeron, I configured the device "light pen" and "light gun", but not all games work.
I was able to properly play the game "bug hunt" and "crossbow".
but you can not play the game "Alien Blast", "Bembel Wo", "Atari Graphics".

Please see my settings.
I can correctly configure the devices?

thanks for another update. :)

breaker - 03 11 10 - 02:09

guys can suggest where to take a dump "ICD R-Time 8"?

breaker - 03 11 10 - 05:08

I expect the Alien Blast issue is to do with the offsets, sadly as there no visual show of where the shot went its pretty hard to pick the right offset.

I could be wrong tho...

Mclane - 03 11 10 - 05:13

No idea where you can get that, I don't have a dump of it but as it's only a real time clock that keeps file attributes date and time plus on screen time I would have no use for it.

Mclane - 03 11 10 - 05:18

I fixed a bug that prevented Inverted mappings from working when bound to a source button:

Atari Graphics works, although it may take a little bit of practice to hit the startup line. It uses a different offset than the XEGS games so you'll need to aim a little bit off to the left of the calibration line until you hear the bell, then hold the pen there until you get to the drawing screen. It uses a light pen, so you'll need to change the Button 0 mapping to Mouse LMB (Inverted).

Alien Blast works, although it has a HUGE offset. The horizontal offset is expected, but the vertical offset is strange and not one that I've seen in other light pen/gun based programs. It might have something to do with a real light gun's sensitivity to on screen brightness and most of the screen being black, but if so this looks like a poor way to compensate. If you look closely you can sometimes see a tiny shot indicator.

Bembel Wo seems to work for me, although it's hard to tell. Why did people write these crappy light gun games that have no calibration screen and show no indication of where your shots are registering?

You won't find a ROM dump for the R-Time 8 cartridge, because it doesn't have one. The R-Time 8 is just a clock/calendar chip mounted in a cartridge.

Phaeron - 03 11 10 - 10:43

Like all works.
I and did not manage to understand as to adjust "Light gun" for game in "Alien Blast".
The program "Atari Graphics" works from the device "light gun xegs".
I have adjusted 2 light feathers and 2 light pistols.

Devices "koala pad" and "atari touch tablet" are simple for adjusting, though it is strange controllers.

I have correctly configured the device?
here without instructions is not enough.

Phaeron, but what about devices "powerpad" and "track-ball (atari trak-ball)"?
I saw that the "track-ball" was used even in the atari 5200.

Thank you for your excellent work.
and for the patience that you show to us.

breaker - 03 11 10 - 18:01

"Why did people write these crappy light gun games that have no calibration screen and show no indication of where your shots are registering?"

My thoughts exactly, I was cursing alien blast as I was sure it was to do with the ofsets as the screen was flash but could I see a maker for the shot....No, although you say there is one, just tiny...

My ex company Maplin Electronics made a light pen kit for the Atari 8 bit, was more trouble than it was worth. Loads of people had trouble with the diode picking up the TV, was soon withdrawn from sale.

Mclane - 03 11 10 - 21:29

Phaeron, it is possible to ask about small improvement?
I think it will be better if you add in an option the button "mouse capture" so-as now at a choice of devices "light gun", "light pen", the mouse index can fall outside the limits the display, it is very inconvenient.
At inclusion of devices - the mouse index should be only in the display.
Still I have noticed that the index does not reach a screen left edge, it is appreciable in the program "atari graphics".
And still it is appreciable that the mouse index deduced by the emulator lags behind the index in the program, it is impossible to unite them somehow?

and thanks for another update. ;)
I see you're trying to add device "Rigt slot cartridge" and added several new mappers.
there is no limit to perfection.
altirra 1.8 will be a great release, much better than 1.7 version.

breaker - 04 11 10 - 17:13

phaeron, I found a bug in the emulator.
Use my settings file.
if you select Hardware ---> 800 - emulator just hangs and does not respond to keystrokes.
even reset does not work.
Please fix.

breaker - 08 11 10 - 18:50

I'd say your best bet is to delete this ini and start again, you have randomize mem on which is only needed rarely and I could be wrong but it looks like you have Monkey wrench loaded?

Obviously 800 mode works here on mine but I don't use the ini file.

Mclane - 08 11 10 - 19:21

I would not like to delete a file of options, I transfer it from one version to another.
In a file of options at me all adjusted management and is a lot of that another.

breaker - 08 11 10 - 21:08

I'm not saying get rid of it, just back it up and see if the issue is in your ini file, if it is then start swapping bits of it around till you find the problem area.

I'm only saying this as the issue most likely is in your ini and we would rather he work on nice stuff than debug your file :)

Best of luck to you sergey

Mclane - 08 11 10 - 21:54

Paul, I just deleted the file "altirra.ini" and tried to run the emulator.
without changing anything I chose to "hardware ---> 800 and the emulator freezes again.
hence it is not in the ini file.

breaker - 08 11 10 - 22:00

What about trying the reset option as a command line in case something in the registry may be wrong?

Sounds odd.

Mclane - 08 11 10 - 23:47

Sorry, meant /resetall

Mclane - 08 11 10 - 23:50

Any news sergey?

Mclane - 09 11 10 - 21:21

yet there is no news.
We wait for that that will make Avery.
I very much hope that he will rectify an error and will add buttons "mouse capture" and "clear all settings".

breaker - 09 11 10 - 21:44

I would like to explain what for "mouse capture" is necessary.
The matter is that the target oversteps the bounds of the emulator display.
If I wish to shoot at the screen centre - here any problems, all is good.
But, if I need to shoot at display edge.
And if I start to move a sight quickly aside, it can overstep the bounds of the display.
The shot will be made in anywhere, and the emulator window becomes inactive.

breaker - 09 11 10 - 21:58

No, I meant with your emulator working in 800 mode?

Mclane - 09 11 10 - 22:20

No, I wrote that the emulator hangs when selecting Hardware ---> 800.
I have a few months of not using the registry for the emulator altirra.
I have no registry entries for altirra.
I deleted the ini file and after starting by changing the type of machine emulator hangs.

breaker - 10 11 10 - 02:49

That's really strange, there's no registry data under the key of and the ini file has been deleted. I don't think there's any other external dependencies apart from directx?

Have you tried changing the atari800.rom incase its been corrupted?

Mclane - 10 11 10 - 04:21

Sorry, I did look at breaker's case but I forgot to respond. It's not an emulator hang -- it's a crash in the emulated computer, and breaker had the window layout altered in debugger mode such that it looked exactly like the normal window layout and thus he didn't notice that the debugger had activated. The reason for the crash is that you can't run the XL ROM on 800 hardware, and there was a bug in that version where the kernel didn't auto-switch to match. This should be fixed now:

I've also added the mouse capture options. However, I won't be adding the option to reset settings -- there are too many issues with trying to do this once the program has started. The reason why it's a command line switch right now (/resetall) is that it has to be done before settings are loaded on startup.

There are no other settings besides the Registry and the INI file. If you delete the .ini file and then restart with /portable, it's the same as /resetall.

Phaeron - 10 11 10 - 19:51

I was just trying to gestimate all the possibilities that could have lead to a crash. As for options for reset etc, what you have in place is more than enough.

Mclane - 10 11 10 - 21:09

Thank you Avery.
in this version there are no problems, the function of "capture mouse" works great.

can I ask?
how the need to open the print cartridges "right slot"?
I try to open them but in the selection window mappers do not have "Right slot".
and yet, you cartridges added "right slot 8k", but the cartridge "ace-80xl.rom" has a size of 16 kb.
a cartridge "Austin Franklin 80-Cart.rom" has a size of 4 kb.

breaker - 11 11 10 - 00:58

Phaeron, I found error.
error associated with the device "light gun" and "light pen".
in windowed mode, the device emulator working properly.
but the transition to full-screen mode, the goal begins to move only in the middle of the screen and the edges are unavailable.

I recorded a video in which this error is visible.
if I start moving the target closer to the edge of the goal Eran simply disappears.
a shot at the edge of the screen is not performed.

breaker - 11 11 10 - 19:36

Haven't seen the full-screen light pen problem myself, but I did figure out what was wrong with the cartridges. There were bugs in the mapper UI tables that prevented some of the mappers from showing up. The ACE-80XL cartridge is not a right slot cartridge, but it's actually an OSS 'M091' cartridge; however, neither mapper was visible. There was also a bug in that mapper (didn't allow reads to switch banks). It works now.

The Austin Franklin 80-column cartridge won't work. It's not just a cartridge, it also requires an additional 80-column video board.

Phaeron - 11 11 10 - 20:31

Thanks Avery.
Now "light gun" perfectly works in an is full-screen mode.

Cartridge "ACE-80XL" - started, but after clicking any button is released on green screen.
If I start a cartridge "ACE-80XL" in a mode "800 OS-B" that by pressing keys sounds are audible, but symbols are not printed.
how to run this cartridge?

I also have seen many cartridges on the emulator atari 800winplus and have noticed that is mappers absent at you.

Phoenix 8kb
Blizzard 16kb
DB 32kb
Wiliams 32kb
Atrax 128 kb

Whether will be added such mappers in altirra?

breaker - 11 11 10 - 21:00

Sergey, what carts use those mappers?

Mclane - 11 11 10 - 22:25

Phaeron, any reason why the right hand slot carts only work in HLE mode?

Mclane - 11 11 10 - 22:33

Ignore last comment, didn't realise it needed Basic running as well...As Homer says...DOH!!

Mclane - 11 11 10 - 22:40

Paul, I do not know where cartridges use these mappers, but these mappers are in the emulator atari 800winplus, means they for something are necessary.

Avery, Tell the device "track-ball" differs from the usual mouse or not?
If there are differences it is necessary to add this device in the emulator.

Also it is interesting to me, support "multiJoy4 interface" will be added in the emulator?

breaker - 12 11 10 - 13:38

A track ball is basically an upside down mouse, emulating it basically can be done just by using the mouse device. Ultra accurate defender or Missile Command :)

Mclane - 13 11 10 - 00:22

Paul, I suspect that the "track-ball" is an inverted mouse.
but I thought that Atari may be some differences from the mouse.

There are two more very small but useful offers.
Avery you do not have no difficulty.

1) add in the top, service line, an inscription "paused - press F9 to continue".
Such inscription should be deduced at the included pause.

2) at a choice of type of the machine atari 5200 let the option memory size--> randomize at cold start becomes not allocated and switched off.

breaker - 13 11 10 - 01:02

The ACE-80XL replaces the built-in screen editor (E: and S:). You need to actually run something that uses the text screen, like DOS or BASIC.

I hadn't added the remaining five mappers because I had no software to test them with, but what the heck, let's give it a shot:

I moved the "randomize memory" option from the System menu to the Debug/Options menu, as there's no good reason to keep it enabled otherwise (the randomization pattern for the DRAM chips is actually decently well defined as long as the system is left off long enough).

Mechanically, trackballs are like mice, but the way they are connected is often different. The 5200 trackball essentially emulates the 5200 analog joystick, except that it has a center position; the 2600 trackball (CX-80) can either emulate a joystick or run in a direction/velocity mode. The problem with implementing trackballs as quadrature outputs like mice is that the 8-bitters don't generally have dedicated mouse hardware like the Amiga, so they need high-speed interrupts to keep up with it. It probably isn't too hard to implement the 5200 trackball given how similar it is to the 5200 joystick, but I haven't looked at all of the details.

Phaeron - 14 11 10 - 13:46

Sergey, are you paying Phaeron money to put stuff in ? ;)

Looks like I'll have to break open my daughters piggy bank :)

Mclane - 14 11 10 - 20:00

Avery, for added mappers I am very grateful to you, I think they still will be useful.
But what for you have transferred an option "randomize memory" to the menu debugger?
I think in the menu "memory size" this option looks better.
I often use this option, without it some games do not work.
For example games: Flappy and Zardon require this option.
If this option is disconnected that in them it will be impossible to shoot normally.

And what you think concerning addition "multiJoy4 interface"?
perhaps "multiJoy4 interface" and "Track-ball" - this is the last thing that is lacking for the tab "Input".

In any case I am very grateful to you for your work.

Paul, just be focused to bring the necessary things to perfection.
once we have undertaken in this version of the emulator for the tab "input", I think it's necessary to bring to the ideal. :)

breaker - 15 11 10 - 00:58

Phaeron, ages and ages ago I asked about a cheat function to find unknown codes ie unknown value item has changed, its not changed etc or unknown value item has increased or decreased.

I know cheat menu's are not a stunningly important item to you but if I don't ask I'll never know?

There's a cheat system that I have seen used by many emulators so I presume its open source.

Ram Watch and Ram Search

could these be bolted on and scaled down to 8bit?

As I say, I can only ask ;)

Mclane - 19 11 10 - 02:33

Paul, it is not necessary to hasten.
I think we gradually we will reach and to "cheat codes" and some other options.
Let Avery at first will understand for example with management.

Personally I wait other thing, but to ask yet I will not be.

breaker - 19 11 10 - 03:05

Sergey, you mean like multi joy 4 :)

Count your blessings, Phaeron has added a load of stuff for you, let someone else have a treat maybe :)

I'm purely pointing him to some code, he can look and laugh or whatever, that's all I have done. To be honest he does not need to do another thing, the emulator is perfect, what we are asking for is purely un-needed, its just fun stuff that we like.

Mclane - 19 11 10 - 03:31

Avery, there is an error with this game for VBxe.

breaker - 19 11 10 - 03:50

Павел, ты не прав ...
больше всего я жду 3 вещи в эмуляторе:

1) За исключением государств (не быстрое сохранение).
2) меню для полноэкранного.
3) замедление и ускорение эмуляции.

Avery, I do not in any case, do not ask to do these things now.
you do this only when you want and when it deems it necessary.

breaker - 19 11 10 - 04:21

damn translator ...

Paul, you're wrong ...
most of all I'm waiting for 3 things in the emulator:

1) With the exception of states (not quick save).
2) for full-screen menu.
3) slowing down and speeding up the emulation.

Avery, I do not in any case, do not ask to do these things now.
you do this only when you want and when it deems it necessary.

breaker - 19 11 10 - 04:23

Yes but Sergey you are wrong ;)

None of those are needed in the emulator, they are nice extra's like my idea for the cheat system which actually has some real uses. All the things we have asked for in most cases have made no impact in the quality of the emulation, they are mere toys we want to play with. :)

Of those 3 you mention the only real good one would be save states but that falls into the same idea as the cheat side, not needed but nice.

As I said, you have either paid Avery good money or been lucky to get your latest bits added :)

The last bit IS a joke.....You used the Russian Mafia actually

Mclane - 19 11 10 - 05:46

Paul, I had something else in mind.
You think that I am waiting to add the emulator "multijoy", but in reality I dream about those three things.
I have nothing against setting "cheat-codes", but to me it's not so important.
although I'll be very glad if you will be added to the settings "cheat-codes".

breaker - 19 11 10 - 15:32

Thanks for beta 28, which brings me to a point.

I was looking at Rybags screen shot for that game and my colours seemed way off to his, this and the way the artifact looking text at the center of the screen looked wrong so I tried to adjust the palette only to find it can't be adjusted in VBXE mode.

Is there a reason for this?


Mclane - 19 11 10 - 22:15

Thanks for updating Avery.
At me a question, you will let out final version 1.8 in the beginning of December or is closer by the end of the year?
It is final to you to solve, but I think it would be better if final version 1.8 left in the end of December.
Such gift for all by new year. :)

breaker - 19 11 10 - 22:39

damn ...
Toy Quadrillion is very complicated.
I'm stuck at level number 15.
strange but in this game save does not work as expected.

breaker - 20 11 10 - 14:20

Phaeron, a friend has kindly PDF'ed a article / review by UK magazine PC Pro about Virtualdub, says nice things about it.

If you want it I'll mail it to you.

Mclane - 21 11 10 - 05:33

Interface still needs work, but what the heck, cheat codes:

Double-click to activate or deactivate a cheat; currently you can lock locations at their current value. You can either search for exact values or you can attempt to narrow down with less/greater/equal operations -- good for approximate things like life bars.

> I was looking at Rybags screen shot for that game and my colours seemed way off to his, this and the way the artifact looking text at the center of the screen looked wrong so I tried to adjust the palette only to find it can't be adjusted in VBXE mode.
> Is there a reason for this?

Yes, it's because the VBXE palette is specified in RGB and can be modified by the program. Palette 0 can be modified, but it only takes place on the next cold boot. It actually probably shouldn't; there have been cases of visible mismatches because programs were expecting the default laoo palette used by the hardware.

The colors aren't actually artifacting colors, but rather colors that come from the attribute map. Basically, there's no code in the current version to force that text window to display as 40-column text, so it displays as color graphics instead. The colors are probably just from the rainbow in the background.

> At me a question, you will let out final version 1.8 in the beginning of December or is closer by the end of the year?

I don't know when I'm going to do a release, but it seems pretty close at this point.

Phaeron - 22 11 10 - 19:20

Phaeron / Avery...THANK YOU!!!!

Thanks for the vbxe info but just one question re that, obviously I can adjust the colours under non vbxe mode which then affect the colours in vbxe mode but by doing that knowings its then an rgb scale am I forcing incorrect other colours other than the fact that I am affecting the overall hue etc?

I hope you understand that muddled question, basically by adjusting the atari's non rgb colours and then switching to an rgb vbxe mode am I corrupting anything as its two different systems?

Mclane - 22 11 10 - 21:26

Good update.
Thanks Avery. :)

I want to ask whether you can make a save search results "cheat-codes" into a file and loading the saved "cheat-codes" files?

breaker - 23 11 10 - 00:19

Oops, yes, good idea, forgot that...

Mclane - 23 11 10 - 01:13

Yes, I as will present that it is necessary to search anew for each time chit-codes for each game, to me already badly becomes.

breaker - 23 11 10 - 01:31

Avery, how to use cheat codes?
So I found a value indicating the number of lives the game "Boulder dash".
but how do I change it to another?
For example I want to set the number of lives 9.

breaker - 23 11 10 - 02:56

I was going to ask this but the change log calls it a simple cheat engine. In basic terms it purely freezes the location not allowing it to be written to which in 99.9 percent of the time is fine unless the location in question is being indexed for multiple uses.

Anyway, as it stands its not written to make nice looking cheat bars :)

The easiest way around this would be to find the location you wanted as you have done, pause the emulation, unlock the location, go to the debugger and write your wanted value or one higher into the location and do the search for the new number this time at that location, that would allow you to have that number you wanted locked in.

That is unless Phaeron adds an edit value function.

And as said, yes, can the cheat be savable (and loadable if possible) please

Mclane - 23 11 10 - 03:23

Sergey, if you find that after locking a location that the game starts to crash then you have to start going back into the code to see what is writing to that location and adjust the code accordingly. From memory I don't remember any games using multiple uses of the same location for scores or lives back then when I did hack games with the OmnimonXL.

Mind you i am getting old and the memory may be going :)

Mclane - 23 11 10 - 03:29

Paul, I think Avery almost did a search of cheat codes.
All that remained to him to do it - add a few buttons to the right window of search results.
such as a button:
- Edit, change the value.
- Lock up (freeze) value.
- Remove the value.
and of course save and load the search results.

breaker - 23 11 10 - 15:34

Technically lock and remove are there simply by double clicking.

Mclane - 23 11 10 - 19:47

Load/save, and you can manually enter cheats, too.

Phaeron - 27 11 10 - 11:31

Phaeron thnx for the update what's new or change :)

marcokitt2000 - 27 11 10 - 11:32

wow, great!
cheat codes work perfectly.
I can change the value and save (load) results.
and even files a8t from emulator atari 800winplus supported.
Avery you are the best. ;)

breaker - 27 11 10 - 18:19

Just a little feature rather than a bug, when you pause with F9 if your mouse pointer is on top of the screen it gives the red and white no entry / stopped symbol, if you hit F9 again it does not change the pointer until you move the mouse again which can if not noticed lead to keep pressing the F9 key thinking its still paused.

Mclane - 29 11 10 - 05:17

found a bug.
in the game "Shadow Hawk One".
game freezes when you on the map.
in emulator atari 800winplus 4.0 game works perfectly.

breaker - 29 11 10 - 20:19

Can't say I got a freeze but I did notice that for some reason after I died that if I pressed the joy button rather than start it seemed to buffer that so when you went back to the star map it automatically pressed the button which hyper jumps you to your base and kills you.

If you don't press the button but just hit start its fine, not been able to check on Plus as yet..

Otherwise the game played fine for me..

Mclane - 30 11 10 - 01:38

Paul, I do not get to play this game on the emulator altirra.
when I run the game, there emerges a picture, then goes saver.
After the cutscene I press F2 and appears redundant system map solar.
and all ...
after that nothing works in the game.

in the emulator Atari 800winplus everything works.
on the stellar map a blue transparent cursor, which can be moved.
no hang no.

breaker - 30 11 10 - 02:35

I have a feeling you have another controller setting turned on as well as gamepad....

Its working perfectly here, sadly its just a cheap Star Raiders, apart from the annoying habit for it to buffer the joystick button presses and kill you on the map menu its ok.

Mclane - 30 11 10 - 04:09

Excellent catch. I was able to reproduce the problem with the XL kernel and determined that it was a regression due to the trigger latching support I implemented for light pens. This version has a fix:

This version also allows changing the ROM filename/paths.

The cursor not updating is a known issue, but it's tricky to fix... normally Windows only queries for a new mouse cursor when the mouse moves, and the command to change the cursor doesn't check which window the cursor is over. It affects the debugger, too, so it's something I'd like to fix.

Phaeron - 30 11 10 - 16:10

Avery, it's fantastic!
I am very happy.
just a huge thank you from me:)
BIOS files are fine, everything works.

Avery, I can ask you for a small improvement in the tab "ROM Images"?
I would ask only two things:

1) add please button "Rom Information" to be see information about used versions biosa.
so the same option on the emulator Atari 800Winplus.

2) If you can please do so:

in the Emulator folder, you can put all three versions of BASIC.
and at any time version can be changed.
empty by default uses Basic rev C.
it will be very convenient.

And of course thanks again for your excellent work.
with each new release of the emulator is getting better and better.

breaker - 30 11 10 - 23:49

I'm still getting the fire button being buffered in Shadow Hawk one under beta 31, I set it to keyboard and it still happens, is this the game doing it or Altirra?

Checking against Win Plus suggests Altirra

Mclane - 01 12 10 - 00:02

Very strange, I went through the registry and removed every instance of Altirra (yes I love playing with the registry) and it seemed to still happen, I also found it strange that after it was reset back to scratch that it still seemed to remember the last game dir I had used so decided to search the C: for any instances of Altirra (its on my D: drive, but wanted to find any rogue cfgs etc) and it just found a prefetch file which I dumped and then it worked as planned without the buffering...


Mclane - 01 12 10 - 00:14

I'm getting very weird lag on the joystick and keyboard, if I go to either Star Raiders Galactic map or the one on Shadow Hawk one I'm getting instances of lag both on keys and joystick, sometimes a press is not registered at all.

Seems to affect the analog sticks to at times..

Sorry about this..

Mclane - 01 12 10 - 00:23

Paul, Do not know, I no longer use the registry (I do not like it).
I use the file altirra.ini, I transfer the file from the old version in a new and I'm happy.

I want to ask, you do not know where to get files cassettes for atari (files with extension CAS)?
I found only sites Atarimania and Cas archive, but there are not many of my favorite games.
I have not managed to find anywhere such games as:
pastfinder, HERO, megamania, lord of the orb, master of the lamps ...

breaker - 01 12 10 - 00:28

Gone back to 30 and its still happening so hang fire on looking Avery until I can vouch my system is clean..

Mclane - 01 12 10 - 00:31

Paul, I just checked a few games, no lag on the joystick or keyboard, I have not.
it's something you have with your computer or windows.

breaker - 01 12 10 - 01:14

Odd....Ran Avira and search and destroy and found nothing, I've no hidden processes and the keys seem fine on my other emulators..???

There's no type lag here as I type?

More checking I think for me...

As for cas files, I have 1,600 of them but I know many are not original tapes, ie they are cracked files just dumped to tape.

Mclane - 01 12 10 - 01:47

Well I've done every rootkit check I can and I'm clean, I can type happily in a DOS window on Altirra so I'm down to presuming that Shadow Hawk one is a pig slow program and Star Raiders was just being picky..

Shadow Hawk just seems unresponsive.....Oh well...At least the system is clean which would have worried me immensely as I'm a stickler for anti virus and firewalls as I used to have to clean customers machines of them daily.

Mclane - 01 12 10 - 02:10

Paul, you got me interested.
You can put your archive *. cas files?

breaker - 01 12 10 - 02:17

Sergey, well ahead of you there

Mclane - 01 12 10 - 04:14

Thanks Paul ;)

breaker - 01 12 10 - 04:36

There's some junk in there, a few MSX files which are named cas hence they got mixed in and quite a few that are either bad versions or just are not finished and of course many are CLOAD which I have not had a chance to rename as yet..

Mclane - 01 12 10 - 05:48

Many thanks for Altirra . You are the Best.

I know it bothers the track cassette recording but I think it's really the only thing missing from the emulator to be the best of the best.

Thanks and regards.

nsonic - 01 12 10 - 11:00

nsonic, it's not all.
altirra still a long way of development, much remains to be done.
cassette player needs some work.
No save states.
No menu for full-screen mode.
no network.
so much more ...

breaker - 01 12 10 - 16:42

Ok, I have to ask, whats with the wish for so much cassette support, what do you think its missing?

Real save states I agree and been asked for loads of times so lets leave it there, I'm sure Phaeron said the full screen menu was a problem.


You mean like kaillera net play support?

If so I'm sure Phaeron turned that down ages ago and to be honest I don't blame him as no one used it on Atari800win that I know of. For me as it stands its looking superb, its got almost every thing I can think of apart from some silly eye candy stuff like sprite and font ripping (although very easy to do under OmnimonXL) which would be trivial stuff.

Obviously I'd never turn down any additions Phaeron makes :)

I have to say we are very very lucky to get such a fantastic level of support, I only know of three other authors who put so much time into their work, that's Toni Wilen of WinUAE, Byuu (semi retired now) of Bsnes and Steve Snake of the Sega machine emulator Fusion, sadly Steve gets little time these days as he's a game developer and moves a lot but he like Avery strives for the most accurate emulator out there.

Mclane - 01 12 10 - 23:55

paul, do not get angry.
I just answered the question nsonic, that the emulator is still incomplete.

I can answer questions in order:

1) cassette player.
is in need of improvement.
no press start (play).
I found quite a few games in the form of CAS files that work fine for atari 800winplus, but not loaded into altirra.

2) save states - there are all agreed, without that it's difficult to manage.

3) network.
yes I meant the game on the network.
If you can not make the game a kaillera then there is another way.
You can make the connection directly from one computer to another via an IP address.
Besides Avery did emulation R-device (modem), without network this device can meaningless (useless).

4) full-screen mode ....
there is no better than anything I will not say.
If Avery wants to, he'll do it later.

but please do not take it all too painful.
I have been convinced that Avery wonderful programmer and knows his business.
we are very lucky, and I hope that we will see much more interesting.

breaker - 02 12 10 - 13:16

Windows itself will remember the path used by an application's file dialogs, which is why you kept getting your game directory even though you wiped Altirra's settings.

I did some testing of Shadow Hawk One (v1).xex on a real Atari and there is actually a bit of delay in controller input, enough that it actually takes a bit of effort to fire only one shot. The galactic map also takes a bit of time to move the cursor. Beyond that, I can't explain what you're seeing, except maybe that it depends on the exact version you are using, which may affect the hardware setup when the game runs.

Besides lack of interest, network play also requires save state support since the two emulated Ataris must be exactly in sync -- there is no room for divergence since the games weren't designed with network play in mind. As I've said before, I don't want to work on full save state support now because save states make it harder to work on the emulator core, since everything in the core must be saveable and there are some complex behaviors right now that don't survive a save/load cycle.

Phaeron - 02 12 10 - 15:51

Avery, you have to say that the emulation of Atari in altirra are not so precise to make the save, right?

and I want to ask whether someday added support sap files?
I know that in your test (acid 800) you are experiencing emulation sap.

breaker - 02 12 10 - 17:32

@Sergey, sorry if my post sounded angry it wasn't meant to I simply was asking what you thought was needed and why, there was no trace of anger in me as I typed it, it was pure interest.

@Phaeron, thanks for answering the input delay in Shadow Hawk one, it just seemed seemed pretty bad so I was worried I had a key logger or some such, the idiot side of me DIDN'T think as that point to try typing in Memo pad to see if there was a delay there (which I now know there wasn't).

At the end of it at least I know my machine is clear of anything bad, sorry it took some of your much needed work time away tho. Altirra is running exactly as it should here, a thanks and keep up the great work, from a seriously cold UK.

Mclane - 02 12 10 - 22:55

Beta 32 is out in case some missed it...

Mclane - 03 12 10 - 01:54

Paul, I have long since downloaded the beta № 32.
I thought it would be the final release of 1.8 but he makes more.
wondering what will happen next?

breaker - 03 12 10 - 02:15

Sergey, whatever it is, it will be well worth it :)

I was looking at that 32 in 1 OS package today and thought once again that it would be a nice addition but Phaeron has already said no and for good reasons. What I am getting at is that I'm now running out of really good idea's because Phaeron has already added them but Avery, you keep on plugging bits on please, we love them :)

Mclane - 03 12 10 - 04:53

I do not know, but you can in fact change the OS files from the menu ROM Images.
can therefore Avery considered superfluous to add 32 in 1 os in the emulator.

Very interesting innovation would be support SAP of files.
At present there is no emulator supporting SAP.
It would be possible to check up many melodies, to look at sound emulation.

I am also a very long time waiting for sound recording in wav, as I want to do recording tapes.

breaker - 03 12 10 - 05:13

I collect some days all possible games and programs in the form of CAS files.
Thanks Paul for your collection, it have very much helped me.
I check these records and I think that in some days I will lay out the report about CAS files which do not work in altirra, but work on the emulator atari 800winplus.

Should notice that at altirra excellent compatibility even with CAS.
Approximately 90 % (if no more) are perfectly loaded.
And here images of CAS on which there are some games at once do not work, for this purpose I ask the button "play" that it was possible compulsorily to force to be loaded a CAS from certain places.

breaker - 03 12 10 - 05:31

found error in altirra.
game "Air-sea Battle".
In the emulator atari 800winplus game perfectly works.
In the emulator altirra 1.8 test 32 this game does not function.

For start of this game it is necessary to expose Firmware--> 800 (OS-A).
On systems XL\XE and OS-B this game will not go!
After game will be loaded in emulator Atari 800winplus, wait for 15 seconds!

breaker - 06 12 10 - 18:37

Oh, has forgotten to explain.
If you load game "air-sea battle" into the emulator atari 800winplus and will wait for 15 seconds after that in the top part of the screen there will be figures (score) in game it will be possible to play.

In the emulator altirra after game loading, it is possible to wait as much as necessary, but figures (score) do not appear, game cannot be begun.

breaker - 06 12 10 - 18:47

A terribly written game. And yes, this is a rare game that requires OS-A. The reason is that it has a wait for 768 vblanks at start (12-15 seconds) and it hardcodes the address of the OS-A vblank handler. If run on OS-B, it never starts because it jumps past the part of the VBI handler that increments RTCLOK, and on XL its disk loader fails because it ends up trying to load from the SIO poll device instead of the disk.

I don't seem to have a problem getting this to run in OS-A with test-32, however. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just had to hit the start key after waiting and it fired up. NTSC/PAL and SIO patch don't seem to matter.

Phaeron - 06 12 10 - 20:12

Avery, I do not understand.
you have got to start playing in altirra or not?
I waited and pressed the "F2" but the game did not start.

But if I wait 15 seconds, in the emulator Atari 800winplus and press "F2" game starts.

breaker - 06 12 10 - 20:20

The game works fine for me.

Phaeron - 06 12 10 - 20:23

very strange.
I did not get to play, no matter how I tried.
I made a little video of the emulator altirra and atari 800winplus.
also in the archives of my settings file.
Please see what can be a problem.

breaker - 06 12 10 - 20:35

Sergey, works fine here, wait about 14 secs and then you can play...

Check your settings...The only way I could make it do what you see is to load it as OS-B which is what OS is said to be needed on all 3 of my files. Maybe you have pointed to an OS B file in the paths by accident?

Mclane - 06 12 10 - 21:05

Thanks Paul, the game works.
in the setting of the emulator altirra I pointed the way to "Atari OS vA PAL.rom".
please see the file "ATARIOSA.ROM" is the system OS-A?

It is possible to learn, what OS are used by you, Paul and Avery?

breaker - 06 12 10 - 21:16

I use the same rom that I used when beta testing Atari800win, same one that's been around since day one. I never swapped as it was crc checked for Atari800win so to avoid possible incorrect file names.

Mclane - 06 12 10 - 22:40

Yes, I too thought about it ...
Avery, you can add a tab "ROM Info"?
this will avoid some of the problems will be immediately evident what the BIOS we are using.
this will avoid confusion with the same OS, but different names.

breaker - 07 12 10 - 00:14

Avery, you've added support ABXE, it will be included in the final release of 1.8 or will it be Parallel branch of the emulator?

I also want to ask where I can take the programs to ABXE to check them out at altirra?

breaker - 07 12 10 - 16:56

Avery, don't know whether this is by design or not, but the "Frame Blending" video option does not stick for next time Altirra is started up (WinXP SP3, Test 32). Tried /resetall. I'm not complaining though, as ticking it on Altirra 1.7 crashed Altirra to crash on that machine, so it is a big improvement!

sheddy - 08 12 10 - 03:04

Sheddy oh Space Harrier guru, what beta are you using?

Mclane - 08 12 10 - 03:59

Issue / feature confirmed on latest beta..

Like you, thought that would be a 'sticky' option.

Mclane - 08 12 10 - 04:02

Sorry, sheddy, typed so fast I missed you had mentioned the beta version, my apols.

Meant to say on last message that it happens on Win 7 x64 too (if that mattered)

Mclane - 08 12 10 - 04:04

@Sheddy, I presume the flicker you mentioned in Harrier is a little annoying?

Mclane - 08 12 10 - 04:08

Yes, the flicker can get very annoying, especially on an emulator when your monitor is not running at the same 50/60Hz refresh rate of the Atari - and let's be honest, who runs them at that low a rate these days?(apart from me of course!) That is really where the blending option is such a godsend. Oh, and making videos of this palette flickering is much much easier - beforehand, it took me a long while to realise 0.5 was valid as a scale frame rate option on the interpolate filter of Virtual-Dub...)
Which brings me to another (very) minor niggle with Altirra. The screenshot function when the blending option is on doesn't seem to produce a blended frame like the video record does.

sheddy - 08 12 10 - 05:20

My LCD has a low bandwidth, 60 - 75Hz which thankfully isn't too bad, I'd prefer it ran at 100Hz like my old Dell crt.

On a side note, is the flickering likely to affect a epileptic? (Just in case)

Phaeron has mentioned the screen shot issue before I think, but I'm sure he will deliver a suitable technical explanation but I'm presuming its to do with between frames rather than sampling more than one and blending it???

But what do I know :)

Mclane - 08 12 10 - 05:31

Oops...I try to keep up with what's going on in these Altirra threads, but must have missed if the screen shot issue came up before - I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise.

As to the flicker affecting an epileptic, I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely to me - it's an identical method to the flicker that was used on a lot of VCS (2600) games back in the day, and I don't remember it being a widely reported problem. If you know you're sensitive to flashing or fluorescent lights already, it may not be such a great idea to take too much of a chance though.

sheddy - 08 12 10 - 10:14

I fixed the mixup between the frame blending and interlacing options and also made frame blending work in VBXE mode.

The reason why frame blending acts differently in video recording mode is that when video recording is active, the simulator is prohibited from dropping frames. I need to rework the frame blending to work even if some of the frames aren't displayed.

I don't know of any other programs for SoundBoard (what I called ABXE) other than what's in that thread. I put it in for prototyping purposes.

Phaeron - 08 12 10 - 18:24

@Sheddy, I myself have no epileptic problems, I just thought it was worth a mention as there seems to be non stop mentions of it on news broadcasts etc.

Also, trust me, my memory is awful so the screenshot thing may or may not have been mentioned before, I meant the wording to come across as 'I'm sure I heard him mention it before' and no more than that. Phaeron is such a nice bloke he will always answer people questions so ignore me if the reply seemed otherwise :)

Back to beta testing 2,000 cas files :)

Mclane - 08 12 10 - 20:46

Avery, I tried to run the tunes from the disc "neoplay.atr" on the emulator Altirra-1.8-abxe-test2.
I did not succeed.
ABXE works in the emulator?

I ran the melody:

1) chose an option ABXE and VBXE.
2) loading the cartridge "SDX442_SDX128.rom"
3) open the disk "neoplay.atr" through the "File ---> Open image".
4) gaining Dir command and starts the program "".
5) gaining "Neoplay enigma.neo".
as a result I got a message that was not found a sound card.
what did I do wrong?

and what do you think about setting up "Rom info"?

and thanks for update :)

breaker - 09 12 10 - 02:14

Turn off the VBXE..Work then,,,Nice

Mclane - 09 12 10 - 03:06

I think what Phaeron meant was that you either have VBXE or this, hence its a separate release to the other beta..

Noit sure I like the music but its sounds good...

Mclane - 09 12 10 - 03:12

nice sound ! nice music !

Avery, you will add support abxe in 1.8?

breaker - 09 12 10 - 03:21

Haha...Nice music....LOL...

Shows the difference in our ages :)

Mclane - 09 12 10 - 03:59

Paul, you did not understand.
I mean good sound but not the music itself.
though of course it's not General sound on ZX spectrum ...

breaker - 09 12 10 - 04:41

all looking much better now with save frame and the latest version :)

sheddy - 09 12 10 - 11:56

Avery, I can ask of you one small addition to the emulator?
if it is not difficult to please add the ability to disable the attract mode.
I was very annoying, and sometimes begin to change color even during the loading tape.
just please do not ignore me, I'm not asking for something difficult.

breaker - 09 12 10 - 22:13

You can do this as a cheat yourself by doing a search for an increasing number in the location 77 decimal or 4D hex. If you freez that location it will never go into Attract mode.

Mclane - 10 12 10 - 00:29

The above method is ok by just freezing it to zero which is the reset number BUT if some weird programmer is using that location as a timer it could cause problems but I'd say it's unlikely.

Ever seen a sloppy programmer use this location apart from resetting the atract (its proper name) location in game Phaeron?

Mclane - 10 12 10 - 02:12

Avery, I found a bug with the freezing of the emulator.
if you call the task manager (ctr + alt + del) then after returning to the desktop, the emulator hangs.
In the emulator the sound works only, and video does not vary (is frozen).
Has checked up on altirra 1.8 test 33.

breaker - 10 12 10 - 17:55

Sergey, are you sure the main video window is docked correctly?

It sounds like the main window has lost focus, try dragging it on to the white square.

I don't have the same issue here..

Mclane - 10 12 10 - 21:45

By main I mean the video window.

Mclane - 10 12 10 - 21:46

No, the display is not unhooked from the emulator.
The image on the display is simple stops and on what does not react, though the sound thus normally works.
If I then press alt + enter, the emulator goes into full-screen mode and the display comes to life.
use windows 7 x64.

breaker - 10 12 10 - 21:56

Odd, I do use Windows 7 X64, not getting this, I even tried unfocusing the Altirra window before going into Task Manager and when I shut it down it went straight back to Altirra with the display updating.

Mclane - 10 12 10 - 22:58

Perhaps you have a program running at a higher priority?

Mclane - 10 12 10 - 23:00

like this, I get freezing the emulator.
at the end of the video I switch the emulator in full-screen mode and then back to the window to revive him.

breaker - 10 12 10 - 23:17

I can see what you are saying but here if I click back into Altirra while Task master is running the video returns to normal animation. When I click on the Task master and Altirra is no longer in focus then it stops both audio and video which many emulators do to avoid frame loss.

The second I return the focus to Altirra it returns to normal, no need for full screen.

Mclane - 11 12 10 - 00:25

Hi Phareon,
Not too surprisingly, I've been using the frame blending quite a lot and am curious about how it works. On my real (PAL) Atari and TV, and using Altirra synced to my CRT monitor at 60Hz the picture appears brighter than when frame blending is on. In fact, nearer to a naive 50% opacity on the overlaid screens to be blended. I guess that may be purely down to the peculiarities of my equipment, but do you have some kind of phosphor persistence modelling (or similar) going on, and are there any parameter(s) for that which could be exposed for tweaking by us users? (Without making it produce wildly inaccurate results, of course)

sheddy - 11 12 10 - 20:47

Regarding the freezing issue, I'm seeing the same behavior as Mclane in Windows XP. Haven't tried yet in Windows 7, although I don't remember such issues. This generally means that the Direct3D device object has become inoperative and isn't waking up normally. Does /ddraw make a difference? This will force the slower DirectDraw mode, and if it acts differently, that would indicate a D3D issue.

Right now it's nothing special, just a 50% opacity. It's currently hardcoded for speed (a 50/50 average is much faster than a scale-based or lookup-based average). There are two issues I can see possibly contributing to the mismatch, one being a difference in gamma, and the other being phosphor decay as you describe. I think the former is more likely than the latter. Can you load the averaged screenshot into an image editor and see if applying a gamma curve resolves the mismatch?

Phaeron - 12 12 10 - 19:26

As you suggest, increasing the gamma (to about 1.7) does get closer to what I see on the CRT. As an aside, I hadn't noticed I had a blend mode called "screen" rather than "normal" selected on Paint Shop Pro when I said it looked more like 50/50 opacity; probably left set from messing about a while ago. So sorry for the misinformation. Not sure why it is called "screen", probably nothing to do with TV screens or monitors. According to the blurb it "Lightens the underlying color by multiplying the inverse of the blend and base colors. The result is a color that is the same or a lightened version of the base color.". Anyway, I can't say it is that much closer than just upping the gamma

sheddy - 13 12 10 - 23:34

eight days of silence ...
continue ?

spark - 15 12 10 - 18:43

C'mon guys...8 days of silence at one of the busiest times of year, I don't know if Phaeron has kids (somehow I think not) but just sorting kids out let alone jobs, meeting deadlines / targets and generally getting caught up like it or not in the madness that is Xmas.

So sit tight, give the guy a chance, I don't know what you think is next but anything that can be added and is needed is already on there, the rest unless there's a big secret will be minor additions.

(I could be wrong??)

Mclane - 15 12 10 - 22:36

Paul, Spark, no need to quarrel.
I think Avery will release the final release towards the end of December.
I have long been accustomed to expect as necessary.
to the same Avery has done everything needed in the emulator.
or almost all ...

breaker - 16 12 10 - 03:14

As Monty Python would say, 'Always expect the unexpected'......

Mclane - 16 12 10 - 04:36

Test-33 was going to be the release candidate, but I found a bug where ROM paths weren't being restored properly on load. Please test this as the current RC:

Phaeron - 19 12 10 - 09:43

Avery, no problem with Rom-Patch.
everything is fine, the path is remembered.

breaker - 19 12 10 - 16:12

Avery, may I ask:
whether added to the final 1.8 ABXE settings and if not why not?
abxe test 2 excellent working and playing music.

breaker - 19 12 10 - 16:49

Sergey, he already answered this initially with that release.

At the time you could not run it and VBXE together or you lost the soundcard. Phaeron said he wanted to separate them, so I expect he wants to have the ability to have the high quality sound with the high quality visual that each offers.

It may turn out that you can't have both but you might want to ask Candle on Atariage while Phaeron is busy.

Bare in mind I've not looked at the 35 RC release as yet.

Mclane - 19 12 10 - 19:52

SoundBoard will go into mainline eventually, but I don't want to hold 1.8 final for it. I've already started shunting other work to 1.9.

Phaeron - 19 12 10 - 21:21

So an Xmas 1.8 for the masses...Nice present..

On that note a merry Xmas to all depending on your religious beliefs but with the right feeling of happiness at this time..

Mclane - 19 12 10 - 21:47

Just had a play and all seems good, I never had an issue with paths, all settings were saved so I guess that was an XP issue. Thrown quite a few pieces at it with no issues but may I ask 2 questions.

1. is it me of has 52K crept in as a mem config?

Part of my memory seems to remember a ram mod to reclaim that extra 4K but I'm not 100 sure, obviously a mod only based on the 800 machine .

2. What's the use of the GTIA and ANTIC visualisation modes, if debugging would they not be better suited to be moved into the Debugging menu for clarity and anti clutter?

Mclane - 19 12 10 - 22:05

Avery, at me such problem.
The matter is that I should switch often input languages on the keyboard.
As I from Russia I should use from time to time Russian and the English variant of keyboard layout.
When at me English language all normally is chosen.
But if I switch input language on Russian that Altirra refuses to understand keys.
I can press only keys of "arrow" and office keys "F1 - F12".
It is especially inconvenient if to try to write something in a BASIC.

Whether it is impossible to make so that the emulator understood both variants of keyboard layout?

breaker - 20 12 10 - 02:38

Sounds like you need a Russian translation as opposed to swapping between keyboard profiles..

Mclane - 20 12 10 - 03:33

Paul, there is other way.
All keys have a code.
If keys are learnt on a code likely will not have value what language of input chosen.

breaker - 20 12 10 - 03:44

I know but it sounds like you want a almost total remap of the keyboard

Mclane - 20 12 10 - 19:20

I'm sorry, but...

Avery, I don `t know what you did, but the sound became worse.

breaker - 21 12 10 - 02:17

If you had actually been the intended recipient of that version, you would have known that it involved lowering the sound clock to match a hardware change that is in progress and it requires a software player you don't have.

Most of the keyboard is mapped to characters, so if your current keyboard language is producing Cyrillic, typing characters will not work. I don't see a good way around this because switching the mapping for non-special characters to virtual keys would essentially mean emulating an English style keyboard on top of the native keyboard, which is not any more useful than just switching to an English keyboard. The current setup _should_ be OK for the international keyboards that still produce ASCII characters.

Phaeron - 21 12 10 - 06:56

LOL...To be fair though Avery, you have said you didn't mind him grabbing bits early :)

But within that is the lesson, if it isn't officially released then it may not be complete or for you.

Anyway, as always, something to look forward to...

Mclane - 22 12 10 - 00:41

Maybe one day you will tell me what Altirra means, I'm sure its to do with something Manga but the only thing I can find is Cephon Birdy. I'm just one of those people who gets curious of names and have a annoying habit for trying to learn.

I just get the idea that it it is to do with something oriental (are you allowed to use that word these days?)

Mclane - 22 12 10 - 00:50

Altirra 1.8 Stable release.

great work !
many thanks for Avery !

breaker - 22 12 10 - 15:57

Thanks to Phaeron for the final version 1.8 :) well done i like it :)

marcokitt2000 - 22 12 10 - 22:38

Phaeron, is the new Acid suite meant to fail on 3 things under 800 mode and 2 on XL test?

Brk Handler and blocked NMI's are the two..

Mclane - 23 12 10 - 01:49

> Maybe one day you will tell me what Altirra means, I'm sure its to do with something Manga but the only thing I can find is Cephon Birdy. I'm just one of those people who gets curious of names and have a annoying habit for trying to learn.

That's pretty much it -- I just liked the name. Afterward someone commented to me about the apparent play on the word Atari, but that definitely wasn't something I'd thought about beforehand.

> Phaeron, is the new Acid suite meant to fail on 3 things under 800 mode and 2 on XL test?

Yes, this is intentional. The test suite isn't fully 800 compatible due to differences in the hardware and OS, and the two tests that fail in XL mode are legit failures related to unemulated behavior. All tests pass on a real XL.

Phaeron - 23 12 10 - 10:14

Avery, about your "Acid800-0.8 test", if you select a processor 65C02 is an emulator hangs at the first stage of testing.
and some games, such as alley cat hang in the beginning.

breaker - 23 12 10 - 23:08

To quote the help file

"Selects the CMOS 65C02 as the CPU model, which contains some extra instructions. This is occasionally used as a homebrew upgrade option. It may introduce some compatibility problems with games. "

The Atari as built never used the 65c02 although it was available (I think), they stuck to the 6502c for the lifetime of the 8bit. So being that the Acid test is to test that the machine is either an 800 or XL as stock (unmodified) there would be every chance it would fail.

Avery sits stunned that someone does read the help file :)

Mclane - 24 12 10 - 01:49

Paul, do not be afraid. :)
Tomorrow King Of Chaos will release a fixed version Bsnes.
Oh, I hope that by year's end will have time yet to upgrade Kega Fusion - is one of my favorite emulators.

breaker - 24 12 10 - 06:53

The 65C02, AFAIK, is a very rare upgrade for 8-bit Ataris. It did not offer much of an improvement in instruction set functionality, but required additional adapter hardware and had a lot of incompatibilities (different instruction timing and lack of undocumented instructions). The 65C816 was a more common upgrade as it was much more powerful and also improved compatibility with the original NMOS 6502. However, the reason why I implemented it was because there IS some software that can detect it and it's was a necessary stepping stone to 65C816 emulation.

As for why the Acid800 test blows up, that looks like a combination of a couple of bugs, one being that one of the tests is using an instruction it shouldn't, and the 65C02 core may be missing an instruction. I'll have to dig into it more.

Some versions of Alley Cat fail on a 65C02/65C816 because they use a undocumented 6502 instruction that isn't supported on the CMOS variants (LAX). The SynSoft version appears to be 'C02/816 compatible.

Phaeron - 24 12 10 - 09:41

thanks for the explanation of Avery.
and a Happy Christmas you. :)

now discuss the emulator moved here:

breaker - 24 12 10 - 16:44

Sergey, are you a stalker ;)

I love Bnses, like phaeron byuu wants the best emulation as opposed to horrible hacks to fake speed.

As for Fusion, I've not been to the 'inn' for a while but know Steve the author was very busy recently. On a side note, I made Steve some furniture for his house, got to see his Megadrive developer gear etc Nice guy.

Furniture making was not my main job, my bio on Atariage says more..

Mclane - 24 12 10 - 20:26

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