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§ Altirra 1.9 released

Version 1.9 of Altirra, my 8-bit emulator, is now available on its home page. Highlights are: many serial port / modem emulation fixes, many new debugger features including conditional breakpoints and trace expressions, improved PAL color emulation and high artifacting support, new cartridge mapping modes, PCLink support for SDX host filesystem mapping, and emulation accuracy fixes to CPU/ANTIC/GTIA. The Acid800 test suite has also been updated to version 0.9.

Oh, and I'm absolutely not posting this just to keep the ginormous comment thread in the 1.8 release entry from growing out of control.



Comments posted:

Cheers Avery..

mclane - 15 05 11 - 10:35

Thank you Avery for the best emulator atari.
Thank you for the opportunity to once again remember the childhood and play my favorite games.
I hope you make a lot of interesting and surprising.

a few days I'll post a fully translated version altirra, we have to translate the documentation and some trivia.

one little question, as will be called the next version, 1.10 or 2.0?

breaker - 15 05 11 - 16:10

I think he already confirmed it as 2.0 in an earlier post..

mclane - 15 05 11 - 21:10

Great news! One small isuue though, the links in README.html are broken.

I see that you've managed to devise an algorithm for emulation of PAL palette quirks. I have tried to do it myself in Atari800, but I failed and in the effect the PAL palette in that emulator is somewhat semi-hardcoded. So I'd like to ask you, what is the science behind your solution? What is the reasoning behind the values in kPALPhaseLookup?

I'd also like to suggest making the "Authentic NTSC" preset the default one in NTSC mode, because the current default produces rather incorrect colours.

Krótki - 15 05 11 - 23:11

Bah, stupid OpenOffice Writer export.

The kPALPhaseLookup array determines the color phases that the GTIA produces. The quirks come about because of the V inversion on alternate scanlines and because the number of colors produced by GTIA doesn't nicely divide into the number of available clock phases, resulting in uneven color spacing. The main GTIA routine uses an approximation where the colors are an average of those produced by adjacent scanlines; the high artifacting mode emulates the different colors on different scanlines.

Everyone seems to have an opinion on colors lately. The authentic NTSC palette is not great either, although it is based on my Atari 800XL (which is likely a bit out of calibration). There's really no good consensus on what the NTSC colors should be, since there aren't strong factors pushing toward a specific palette like for PAL. The hardware manuals spec a 24 degree spacing as ideal, whereas the Service Manual specifies a calibration procedure that causes colors 1 and 15 to be the same, resulting in a 25.7 degree spacing. The authetic NTSC preset uses a 27 degree spacing. The default palette uses 23 degrees, but it's just set to try to make most games look reasonable without making the screen too dark on gamma=1.0 displays.

Phaeron - 16 05 11 - 16:40

Thank you for the explanation; alas you haven't told me anything I didn't already know ;) I'd just like to ask, how did you get the values at kPALPhaseLookup? Are they 100% based on analysis of the PAL GTIA output or have you made some assumptions? I didn't have access to a vectorscope so no surprise I didn't succeed, but I'm curious what was your method.

The emulation of the colour pot ("hue step") seems to be spot on, congratulations. I'd only like to point out that at least on my 65XE, the range of adjustment is way different. The minimal setting corresponds to the value of ~14.9 deg in Altirra, and the maximum setting is way above your maximum of 36 deg. (Actually on half of the pot's range the colour signal is lost completely.)

Also, some PAL TV sets appear to not blend the adjacent scanlines fully - on my TV the differences in colours between the scanlines are very slightly visible. I'm suggesting maybe an additional slider for adjusting amount of PAL blending, what do you think?

Regarding NTSC colours - well, there are a few things we can rely on:
1. Hue 1 equals the colorburst, which is defined as 180 deg in YUV or 213 deg in YIQ (assuming a TV with unadjusted, "default" hue/tint setting). Adjusting the Atari's colour pot doesn't change it. For me such setting seems a reasonable default.
2. AFAIK the value of 24 deg appears only in the spec for CGIA, which kinda contradicts itself - the colour names at p.50 (copied verbatim from the NTSC GTIA spec) don't match the 24 deg spacing. Since it was a preliminary spec for a chip for which we don't even know if it reached prototype phase (and it apparently didn't have a colour delay pin available for adjustment), I think that the CGIA spec should be ignored.
Now, the GTIA spec and the field service manuals also contradict each other - the spec says the name of hue F is "light-orange", which places it between hue 1 ("gold") and 2 ("orange"), and the service manuals say what you pointed out. Anyway, it's hard to decide; I've decided on following the GTIA spec in Atari800 but that's just me. I've once made a survey for NTSC screenshots at AtariAge, and of all 11 that came, each had the spacing adjusted slightly differently - some above 24 deg, some below.

But, your current default palette is strikingly incorrect - it doesn't match the colour names in the spec, and actually seems to be based on the PAL palette. The effect is wrong colours on games such as Pole Position (green sky). I'm asking to at least move "hue start" to the setting that matches the colorburst.

One more issue I've found - when switching between PAL/NTSC when the "Adjust colors" dialog is open, the dialog doesn't get refreshed.

Krótki - 17 05 11 - 07:36

I wrote some programs to do parameter fitting to palette captures from real Ataris, since I don't have a PAL one myself. I did something similar to reverse the parameters back out of the G2F (JAKUB) palette, but I never polished it enough to put it in the UI.

Reducing blending on the PAL palette is a bit annoying because the non-artifacted modes use a 256 color paletted image, so in order to do unblended images I'd need 512 colors or just to expand to a 32-bit image like the artifacting modes. Actually, what I'd like to do is hardware accelerate some of these operations on the GPU, but I don't have the display infrastructure for that (pesky API autoswitching gets in the way).

I'll have to do some checks, but I think 0 deg base looks markedly different in Altirra than it does on my 800XL, more bright yellow on the TV. The two possibilities I can think of are either that some subtle delay is somehow sneaking in between colorburst and hue 1, or I need to apply a gamma correction transform. I've also got a sneaky suspicion that at least my NTSC 130XE was adjusted to try to approximate PAL colors, which doesn't help trying to figure out what "real colors" look like. But yeah, if I were to switch the default, probably the most likely would be 0' delay and 24' step (would appreciate feedback on how this looks on a variety of programs).

Anyway, new build (and new version scheme):

This has some of the emulation accuracy improvements I've been holding from the devline until after the 1.9 release. 2.00-test1 now emulates the horizontal scrolling artifacts along the right border. It also has support for .atx and .gz files, and a configuration option for arrow key behavior. Finally, there is now support for command aliases in the debugger, and in particular a command to set up aliases for some Atari800 debugger commands (a8).

Phaeron - 19 05 11 - 16:30

Thanks for the update, Avery.
Thank you for what you do not throw your project and continue to develop it further.
whether it is possible to hope that we will see in this version support multijoy4 interface?

breaker - 19 05 11 - 17:01

found a bug, not correct displaying sprites in some games.
For example, see the game oils well
some sprites, how-to cut the top line.

breaker - 19 05 11 - 18:20

error occurs in games Oils well, amphibian! and some other games.
tested on the emulator altirra 2.00 test 1

breaker - 19 05 11 - 18:48

Sorry, there was a regression in ANTIC due to a fix that hadn't gone over yet.

Phaeron - 19 05 11 - 19:04

Avery, you do not need to apologize.
I'm glad I could help you.
Excellent work ! :)

breaker - 19 05 11 - 19:13

I was bothered with the issue but will put the cassette recording option? Greetings

NSonic - 20 05 11 - 00:34

@programs to do parameter fitting to PAL palette captures

Funny thing, I did the same thing for analysis of NTSC screen captures ;) Anyway it's nice to see it resulted in Would you consider publishing sources of those programs?

@Reducing blending on the PAL palette

I see. In that case, would it be more straightforward to enable the "blending adjustment" only in the artifacted modes? They already operate in 32-bit BPP.

@"I'll have to do some checks, but I think 0 deg base looks markedly different in Altirra than it does on my 800XL, more bright yellow on the TV. The two possibilities I can think of are either that some subtle delay is somehow sneaking in between colorburst and hue 1, or I need to apply a gamma correction transform."
I'd rather suspect your TV to have its tint calibrated in a non-neutral position.

Of all screen captures from NTSC machines (both 800XLs and 130XEs, see ) that were made using a TV capture card, all had hue 1 precisely equal to the 180 deg angle in the YUV colourspace - that means, hue 1 was always equal to the colorburst. Based on that, I would assume that if your TV shows hue 1 as a different colour that greenish-yellow, then it's probably the TV's fault, and not the computer's.

(I've written earlier about colorburst angle being 213 deg in YIQ. I've made a mistake, it's actually -57 deg.)

@"I've also got a sneaky suspicion that at least my NTSC 130XE was adjusted to try to approximate PAL colors, which doesn't help trying to figure out what "real colors" look like."
AFAIK hue 1 does not change when adjusting the colour pot. Is hue 1 on your 130XE different that on your 800XL? That would be strange.

@"But yeah, if I were to switch the default, probably the most likely would be 0' delay and 24' step (would appreciate feedback on how this looks on a variety of programs)."
Why 24 deg? Considering what I'previously written about the CGIA spec, is there any other document that suggests the 24 deg spacing? The Field Service Manuals say it should be 25.7 (so that hue 1 = hue F), and the colour names listed in both the A800 H/W Manual and the GTIA spec suggest a value between 25.7 and 27.7 (so that hue 1 is between hues E and F).

Anyway, with your proposed defaults, hue 1 is not equal to the colorburst, and in effects the colours are wrong, e.g.:
- Pole Position - green sky,
- Mario Bros. - purple bricks at the bottom (should be red like on the arcade),
- Star Raiders - shields are green (the author himself said they should be "dark blue with a hint of green", see )

If you set "Hue start" to -57 (=colorburst), all of the above problems are corrected.

Krótki - 20 05 11 - 04:17

> Anyway it's nice to see it resulted in Would you consider publishing sources of those programs?

Sure, although it's probably less impressive than it sounds:

The very last part I did by fiddling with the values in the emulator source itself, which is why the steps in the table are all negative (which in retrospect looks weird). But hey, as Blinn said, it's about making an even number of sign errors.

I honestly didn't know about the -57 degree angle between I and color burst, which explains an awful lot (and is the magic delay I was missing). That's why Altirra uses 0 as the I axis in the tuning window and I couldn't figure out why the ideal NTSC colors I was trying were so far off. The funny thing is that I didn't have that problem with PAL, because its design means that if you make a mistake your colors tend to be wrong rather than off.

By the way, one thing I didn't expect until I started doing the PAL high artifacting work was the checkerboard problem caused by the V inversion. In NTSC, imperfect chroma rejection gives you vertical bars, but the V inversion causes uglier patterns in PAL instead. I managed to get the luma-to-chroma crosstalk artifacts to produce the same rainbows as I saw on screenshots, but it's difficult to get the chroma-to-luma artifacts down without blurring out the image. I refuse to cheat and just amp down the derived C-to-Y filter.

Phaeron - 20 05 11 - 17:40

Avery, can I ask you, what version of Visual Studio you are compiling of the new version altirra?

translation ready, you can see fully translated, the Russian version emulator altirra 1.9 here:

breaker - 21 05 11 - 03:05

Multiple memory and watch windows for the debugger, plus fixes for disk formatting issues:

I build Altirra with Visual Studio 2005 Professional Edition.

Phaeron - 22 05 11 - 18:15

thanks for update Avery :)

breaker - 22 05 11 - 21:24


Seems that more seetness keeps coming out of Altirra. I see you CAUGHT the hor-scrolling artifacts, which I noticed in Frogger, Joust and others... You jumped ahead of me! Now, one more "bug" less to emulate...

Anyway, with respect to colors, there is NO fixed values for HueStart and HueStep, but a specific window of them, which allow to mimic the actual hardware (rather by-the-book NTSC specs).

Here is a summary of what looks almost identical (except Gamma, which I would love you include in the Color panel adjustment) between Altirra and my 800Xl, as well as JayMiner-800 (the settings ARE different):

=> Palette: 800xl (via s-video, SuperSalt adjusted)
=> Hue Start: (-57 for 800XL; -51 for "JayMiner" Atari800)
=> HUe Step: (25.1 for 800XL; 25.5 for Atari800)
=> Brightness: -1%
=> Contrast: 83%-85%
=> Saturation: (19%-21% for 800XL; 22%-23% for Atari800)
=> Art. Phase: 180% (BLUE & RED via RF modulator +C56 presemt on-board 800XL)
=> Art. Sat.: 100%
=> Art. Bright: -15%

Thanks, again, for simple *THE* finest Atari-8bit emulator currently avaiable,


Faicuai - 25 05 11 - 14:16

Bad palette, dark, and colours any wrong.
That palette that uses Avery more correct.

breaker - 25 05 11 - 15:28

Its seems the best idea on this is because of colour preferences over exact values would be to allow a few user slots (4?) that can be saved as opposed to the single one. That way XL & 800 for both TV systems (not just the NTSC in your case Facusai (I presume NTSC?) could be saved.

For me it seems no one will agree 100% on what's right even if there are direct figures out there as adjusted pots and poor colour / sat / signal on TV sets will give a 'personal' view point always.

Just my idea...

mclane - 25 05 11 - 21:51

I already propose that before.
must either add more profiles with various palettes, or teach the emulator to open the files panel *. act, as is done in the emulator atari 800win plus.

breaker - 26 05 11 - 01:31

>That way XL & 800 for both TV systems (not just the NTSC in your case Facusai (I presume NTSC?) could be saved.

Correct, McLane. Four slots that could be recorded in Registry (Windows) or external file should be enough. Gamma-correction is required as final enhancement, because most CRT-TV sets are POOR platforms-of-choice for color evaluation (calibrating the sets themselves is not truly viable, in many cases, because of the lack of required controls for performing appropriate adjustments, such as black-levels, white-levels, white-point and overall gamma, which have a massive impact on the accuracy of what you see).

> For me it seems no one will agree 100% on what's right even if there are direct figures out there as adjusted pots and poor colour / sat / signal on TV sets will give a 'personal' view point always.

Correct, again. The reason is that very, very few folks have a) quality display/screen HW and b) quality instrumentation and references to really distinguish realit from fiction. In fact, most DON'T even know how a true NTSC signal should be displayed. :-)


You are a

Faicua - 26 05 11 - 02:50

A what ? :)

mclane - 26 05 11 - 05:13

...Mhmmm... Strange editor left-over there...

It was my prior opening line which should read "You are absolutely correct..."... but somehow survived my aggressive (and voracious) editing habits.



faicuai - 26 05 11 - 06:57

Thank goodness, my easily bruised ego was fearing the worst ... :)

Mclane - 26 05 11 - 11:09

Paul, I do not understand that you do not like about the existing palette, the emulator?
as if no other, more interesting things.

breaker - 26 05 11 - 13:58

Just a quick 2 things.

There's nothing wrong with the existing palettes in Altirra but as clearly seen on here and Atari Age everyone has both an expert and a personal opinion on what exactly are the right colours so adding 4 extra user savable slots allowing apparent differences in 800 & XL colours seems a valid choice so that people like Avery can leave people 4 slots to cover each TV system for people to choose their own best 'guesses' until the whole subject comes to an agreed correct resolution.

The other things is that I wonder if you see the emulator as a competition as to who can add the most idea's, all I care about is that the emulator exists and Avery enjoys the creation of it. While its nice to see an idea added I realise that 99.9% of all idea's are pretty much obvious and would have been added anyway at some point with the odd few added as specialist requests.

I may occasionally question an idea because I try and look at idea's from both sides, what we like and how Avery might has expressed how he wants the emulator to evolve, the bottom line is pointless bickering about petty idea's does not help the emulator.

Sometimes it can come across as 'point scoring' ie "I told you my idea would get added".

We don't need that sort of stuff on here, idea's must be about something that serve a healthy segment of users and not just one or two, the time coding time, effort and programmers free time MUST come into any idea's we add, we both know Avery does not need to add a single thing we or anyone suggests but we should remember the forums are to add positive things via helpful discussion only.

Now where's my meds...

Mclane - 26 05 11 - 21:33

Ie, I understand you want to add 4 lines in the menu
System ---> Video ---> adjust colors ---> Load preset
to be able to display the palette separately for:
Pal 800 XL
Pal 800
NTSC 800
I understand you correctly?

breaker - 26 05 11 - 22:48

Sort of, I'm merely suggesting a compromise which might help smooth out the 'what colour is right' debate until its 100% resolved. As I say I am just putting the idea forward, what I want is not the issue here, its just something to add to the discussion and nothing more.

And to be sure of what I am saying, I think 4 lines like you listed which the user can adjust and be saved with the other presets.

Mclane - 27 05 11 - 04:04

Small update:

This version adds speed control, a debug display in the debugger, and fixes for failures in the ASAP 3.0.0 tests. The speed control has known issues right now with causing sound breakups at slower than normal speeds. One of the ASAP tests, cpu_ane, will still fail because I'm not sure the test is valid: it fails on my real Ataris, too.

I'll get around to tweaking the colors again at some point, once I have time to sit down and figure out a happy average. Gamma correction is a bit annoying: it's easy to do on a palette, but slower to do in the RGB modes (PAL artifacting, NTSC high artifacting). That's the main reason I haven't done it.

Phaeron - 28 05 11 - 16:06

I have long waited for this.
Avery you are really best, thank you very much for the update.

a few remarks about the options speed control:

1) please add the menu speed options, click "enable / Disable speed control" to be able to include this option only when necessary.
2) the choice of PAL system emulator should automatically switch to the "Base Frame rate - match broadcast (59.97 / 50 fps)".

I only use Pal emulation altirra and when I start the emulator I found that the sound goes faster than normal.

I tried 3 points:
1) Match hardware (59.9227 / 49.8607 fps) - when PAL emulation is faster than normal.

2) integral rate (60 / 50 fps) - did not help, when PAL emulation is faster than normal.

3) match broadcast (59.97 / 50 fps) - with PAL emulation works as a normal speed.

even when working in a match broadcast (59.97 / 50 fps), I discovered a small discrepancy, for example, run the game Boulder dash, listen to the melody from time to time there are slight stuttering sound.

breaker - 28 05 11 - 16:56

Avery, I certainly understand that you like the emulation mode NTSC, but &PAL emulation should work as expected.

note for example on the emulator Atari 800winplus 4.0.
if there select NTSC mode the video and sound work in the mode NTSC.
if there is to choose PAL mode (he's a little slower), then video and sound work in the mode of PAL.
No differences in speed and sound.

altirra in the same way if you choose PAL emulation, the emulator works in video mode PAL, but the sound and speed of the default are in NTSC.

Please fix it.
I think this can be corrected by adding the button "Enable / Disable speed control".
if you disable the option that you can work and play as well as in altirra 1.9.
If enabled then you can adjust the speed as you need.

breaker - 28 05 11 - 17:53

Umm... while those two posts were impressive, this was just a simple bug:

Phaeron - 28 05 11 - 18:07

Thank you for your understanding, Avery
so much better.


breaker - 28 05 11 - 18:18

Speed control works perfectly.
Avery it is possible to ask you about small improvement?
Whether it is possible to make increase and delay of speed not on 10 % as now, and on 1 % or at least 5 %?

And if there is no that why?

Forgive me for my persistence.

breaker - 28 05 11 - 18:42

LOL Avery,

See what you have started :)

Thanks for the update from all of us..

Mclane - 28 05 11 - 22:59

THANKS for this new update!

To tell you the truth, it seems (to me) that speed control may not really be that important in the overall big-scheme of things (at least not more than actual speed accuracy), especially if it takes time away from more pressing, emu-quality needs. If such are not compromised, then I am fine with the speed-gimmick. This seems true even in other sophisticated Emulation platforms (like MAME), in which I only use the Max-speed setting for benchmarking/"measurbating"/dusting-off dirt-build-ups from my host's CPU fan/rotor... :-)))

In short, I will be personally happy with a reliable 100% (on both PAL/NTSC, which seems there, already) and a CPU-wreaking FULL speed for host-benchmarking purposes. ;-)

Now, as to Gamma-control, I implied a passive/"glued" approach to it: not to be factored-in real-time, but once during Color Settings adjustments (e.g. sort of a color-decode "cache", if that is not what's being performed today, I have not checked the source, to be honest).

Gamma-control will eventually help modify brightness-distribution on the mid-tones (right above black-levels, and right below bright-levels), which would help tremendously, because you will NOT mess the black-point when increasing brightness in this segment of the tonal scale (as "Brightness" command would otherwise do, thus screwing both BLACK and WHITE absolute levels, which many folks have NO means to properly control, measure, nor even determine appropriately). Gamma-control will also help retaining tonal/chroma separation at the high-scale of the brightness, where I have seen a LOT of trouble, during adjustments. I don't think it would be CRITICAL at the moment, but no color-rendering model would be complete without some means of controlling Gamma.

Now, moving into more trascendental / actual-HW-emulation items, I would suggest considering a Direct3D (or equivalent) overlay of "CRT cell-structure" (plenty available from MAME, in .PNG format), so you could take advantage of today's GPUs (via MS's DirectX/Direct3D foundation), and effectively emulate older CRTs scan-line/cell-structure on any give LCD. This will efficiently add a special touch to the overall visual experience with Altirra (and unlike ANY other 8bit emulator, out there).

Down the road, a surrounding "skin" with a CRT-bezel, and a top-section of an 800/800XL/1200XL, etc. would be to die-for (especially for those folks that run it in LARGE, Home-Theater set-ups with 1080p resolution (plenty of pixels to spare), not just a dark-corner of a garage/den room... :-)

Keep up the *GREAT* work, and, above all, your traditional focus on emulation QUALITY,


FAICUAI - 29 05 11 - 03:35

FAICUAI, I'm with you re the speed control, its always just seemed an add on for 1 or 2 people rather than a mass use item. Personally I'd have preferred Avery either spent the time on other things or used the time to have a bit of freedom from the project than hack a speed control in.

But, its Avery's project..

Colour seems to be a point of major argument at the mo and I think more research over time rather than mid time WIP's so it can be dealt with properly as opposed to a million and one little fixes.

The overlays have already been a popular idea but Avery has said the current engine isn't really set for that sort of stuff and would need some rewriting. Scanlines would be a must as its the one point that makes an emulator look 100% more like the real thing, Avery has already gone down this department with things like PAL artifacts so I'd imagine scan lines are well and truly up there as a future add on IF the engine supports it.

I also love the idea of the CRT bezels, WinUAE uses this and its really lovely and add's to the experience but as its an eye candy add on its one for the maybe or maybe not list Avery has.

Mclane - 30 05 11 - 08:28

Paul, speed control is not requested one and not two people have requested this feature many and it is very useful.

about the filter I'm sure Avery will sooner or later add them to the emulator.
My ultimate dream is a filter in the emulator stella and custom scanline.
but I believe that filters are not important.
there are still many unfinished things.

in the emulator you can add support multijoy interface for playing games multijoy.
just not yet made a cassette player (which is also an important element of emulation on the road to accuracy).
not realized the recording sound and create imaging cassete blank.
not fully complete emulation of the processor ANTIC.
I also think Avery later add support for SAP files in the emulator.

addressed to him what to do, I in any case shall be glad to further development the emulator.

breaker - 30 05 11 - 20:31

Apart from setting a perfect FPS what is so important about speed control that so many need?

I have my suspicions of what the use is but its hardly something wanted by more than a few..

Mclane - 31 05 11 - 03:00

Ooops..Forgot to reply :)

Mclane - 01 06 11 - 10:31

Interestingly, Stella's scan-line effects are primitive and limited, especially if compared to the more advanced and refined implementation of Mame64 for Windows (which has source code available, by-the-way).

As for granular speed-control, I'm definitely with Mclane, simply because most of Atari's 8bit software out-there does not run well or consistently at ANY OTHER speed or timing other than NTSC's or PAL's timing (limited/practical applications).

Certainly back to pure/raw emulation-quality, refinement and overall user-experience... Gizmos/gimmicks may come a bit later, if they imply a short-term drain of energy and attention.


Faicuai - 02 06 11 - 16:27

"POSSIBLE" cart-mapper bug:

I was comparing C64 and Atari-8bit versions (and captured colors from real HW playback) of "Bounty Bob Strikes Back", and decided to fire-it up in Altirra.

Well, first thing I noticed is that cart-mapper only shows "5200" or "800" (I assume JayMiner-800) types, and I COULD NOT get it to work with any other ROM-set, except HLE or LLE kernels. Unless I am missing something (which I usually do, mind you), this looks strange to me.

I got the rom image directly from AtariMania, though, as well as another reliable database, and problem is the same.

You may want to check this out, though...

FAICUAI - 04 06 11 - 07:11

FAICUAI, the game "bounty bob strike back" works fine.

1) Remove all disks and cartridges from the emulator.
2) place the memory size of 64k

try my dump the game, and I put in the archives of the required Bios files and settings file.
Unzip this archive into a folder with the emulator.

breaker - 04 06 11 - 14:48

Yes, its a known problem, some versions of BBSB only work on an exact 64K, setting the machine to XL & 64K will make all versions work, others will work with more memory.

I suspect that its a packing or bank switching issue but Phaerons the guru.

Mclane - 04 06 11 - 23:22

There are no news about the new beta?

breaker - 07 06 11 - 16:21

Odd one..

Was just playing with the newly cracked (by Fandal) & working Warlok from the AtariAge forums.

As known I'm quite lazt and use mouse gesture programs to save key presses (bad knuckle joints) and while swapping between 800XL mode and 800 Mode on the Warlok boot screen (where it says Press Start) I noticed the sound / tone volume was much lower on XL than 800 OSB..

Is this right?

Mclane - 07 06 11 - 22:32

And a request..(nice & easy one)

Show Stereo and SIO type on menu bar along with the other device data or as coloured blocks on a FS display.

I'd never really given much thought to either before but with the various high speed loader types and DOS's around it might be worth showing patched SIO is on. The stereo request comes from a mistake I did today, I was playing Bounty Bob after a few music demo's and thought the Bob title page sounded wrong, I then realised the birds were not making the right noise after they dropped letters off and the little song they do after completing their task was gone.

Took me ages to spot I'd left Stereo on which was messing up the tunes and sounds.

As I hear a lot of emulated music on my PC its easy to forget what I should hear as a mono signal, a mono split between channels l 7 r and a true stereo so an icon or so on would be great.

Mclane - 08 06 11 - 01:13

As a small followup to my last message, would it be useful for devs to see what cartridge was loaded (if any)on the menu bar, gamewise its not useful but seeing if BasicXL or some other cart cart that sits in the background might be handy to be shown as an inserted cart?

Not sure if this is useful or not, its merely a follow on thought pattern from the post before.

Mclane - 08 06 11 - 01:18

What happened?
For two weeks no news.

breaker - 16 06 11 - 19:37

Sorry, I've just been a bit busy and working on some stuff that's not ready for release.

Phaeron - 16 06 11 - 19:51

Sergey, try not being so rude eh, "Any new Avery" would have been better..

Avery, never mind us idiots, you carry on and we will see whatever it is when you are good and ready :)

Btw, don't you ever go on vacation?

Mclane - 16 06 11 - 20:03

Well, thanks for explanations, Avery.

Paul, my vacation at me has ended 4 days ago, but I have been compelled to spend it in the same city where I live.
It was prevented learning in college, by my work and some other personal things.
At us not all presume to go abroad to.

breaker - 16 06 11 - 20:36

Sergey, the vacation question was aimed at Phaeron :)

Mclane - 16 06 11 - 22:26

There is a test-6 dated 2011-06-12

artifex - 19 06 11 - 02:18

Differences from test-5 based on changes.txt

* Debugger: Disassembler can now display offsets from symbols.
* Debugger: Profiler now distinguishes between VBIs and DLIs in function sampling mode.
* Cartridge: Added another Atrax 128K cartridge variant used for SpartaDOS X.
* Debugger: Profiler sometimes lost track of intermediate call frames during function sampling.

artifex - 19 06 11 - 02:21

Long time no see. New test build:

MultiJoy 8 support, OSS 034M cartridge mapper split to fix ambiguous mapping issues, emulation support for the IDE half of the KMK/JZ IDE device, and call graph profiling support in the debugger.

Phaeron - 22 06 11 - 16:30

Avery, something I can not figure out where in the options is multijoy interface?
you forgot to add the option in the settings?
commonly used button enable / disable multijoy interface, here I do not see this.

but anyway, big thank you for the update.

breaker - 22 06 11 - 16:57

Oops, someone rem'ed the joy 8 out :)

Mclane - 22 06 11 - 23:40

Oops, there were some changes that I had forgotten to integrate into the mainline. This version has the MultiJoy8 and OSS cartridge fixes, as well as IDEPlus 2.0 support:

Phaeron - 24 06 11 - 18:11

Thanks as always Avery..

You seem to have bolted on every third party relevant add on in Altirra..Amazing work.

Mclane - 24 06 11 - 19:33

fantastic, the emulator is getting better and better.
Avery, thank you, you are a true master of his craft.

breaker - 24 06 11 - 22:20

Avery, I think it makes sense to add a configuration management is another type of controller - trak-ball.
it was used and the usual atari and atari 5200.
In this case we will have a complete set of all types of controllers for Atari.
and the menu "INPUT" can be considered closed.

I think it's easy to add and it will not cost a lot of time.
do it or not you decide.

breaker - 24 06 11 - 23:35

Today as it hit the age of 50 I found a simple but wonderful way to reverse the age feeling, I sat down and had a session on some of my favourite Atari games.

And you know what, as silly as that sounds it actually made me feel like I was 20 again.

Moral: to feel young, keep the mind young...

Mclane - 27 06 11 - 20:03

Fixes for NV-RAM saving with IDEPlus, and more importantly, a fix in the display code that speeds up the emulator by about 5%:

Phaeron - 29 06 11 - 17:01

Thank you...

Mclane - 29 06 11 - 19:57

thanks for the excellent work.

breaker - 30 06 11 - 01:52

Phaeron, I don't think this been asked for before, apologies if it has..

Here goes...Session saving...

I have about 4 disks that across them have a huge number of games, under the DOS used I just press 1 for Drive 1 etc etc to directory them. It would be really handy to have a way to auto load your drives with a set of disks, would be handy for multi disk games, DOS util set ups and numerous other things where a user has to boot the same set of disks on a regular basis.

The idea comes from playing with Aspeqt to load images for my real machine to the USB lead..

Dead handy...

Mclane - 02 07 11 - 03:04

Another request..

Function input mapping, ie like Atari800win when joystick buttons could also control emulator speed, SIO, pausing emulation etc etc..

I've looked at the input system and can't see a way to do this BUT I may have missed this.

Btw, what's inputs state please anyone?

Mclane - 03 07 11 - 20:35

Excuse my poor grammar, what are input states please, was the correct question.

Mclane - 03 07 11 - 21:10

Avery has already given an answer about what "input states", although I do not remember where:)
Paul, it seems the function keys are very handy, although changing them would be good.

I look forward to adding the device trak-ball.

and I also have a small suggestion.
we are engaged in creating the database of games for Atari, and we need to keep a lot of screenshots.
is it possible to do so the screenshots are saved immediately after pressing key, without choosing a name?
as done in many emulators, I think it would be so much easier.
Screenshots could be saved with names like "atari [xxx]" in the folder screenshots.

breaker - 04 07 11 - 03:38

> Function input mapping, ie like Atari800win when joystick buttons could also control emulator speed, SIO, pausing emulation etc etc..

I didn't know Atari800Win could do that. (Or was that something that didn't make it into Atari800WinPLus?)

You can do some of these operations in Altirra by binding to the Console controller type. The Xbox controller preset binds four of the game controller buttons to Start, Select, Option, and Turbo commands.

Phaeron - 04 07 11 - 10:43

Hi Avery, its in Plus version 4 as well, think its been in all of them.

Put an xbox360 controller in and choose it and you get the functions I mentioned, they seem hardwired in but are quite handy, even better if you could configure those options or others directly.

Mclane - 04 07 11 - 20:55

Sergey, thank you for commenting on the input states but managing to not explain them if you knew :)

Bad boy!

Mclane - 04 07 11 - 20:57

Paul, well really you're so hard to look at this site is the answer ?
Now, just for you:

this page

>>> Not sure what you mean by 'input state', have a check of the wording and what menu its on and I'll do my best to offer some help..

Mclane - 05 05 11 - 11:34

>>> The "input state" controller is a meta-controller: it lets you change flags on the input map itself. It doesn't correspond to a real controller.

Phaeron - 05 05 11 - 17:12

breaker - 04 07 11 - 21:10

I must have missed that reply, thank you for digging it up.

Mclane - 04 07 11 - 21:36

To whom does not happen.
Let's look what I will be when I will be 50 years old.

breaker - 04 07 11 - 21:43

Sergey, I can only hope that you look as damn good as I do...

George Clooney..Pah!...He's not even close..... ;)

Mclane - 05 07 11 - 00:22

Mainly just debugger log filtering and emulation of silly PIA behavior, but this also has some optimizations that make it run about 10% faster.

Phaeron - 06 07 11 - 18:32

Avery, allow to ask.
How the gain of speed emulation (optimisation) increases?
I very much hope that you do not cut out anything "superfluous" from the emulator.
I very much would like that your emulator kept the maximum accuracy and accuracy of emulation at any cost.

and what about emulation device trak-ball?
you do not add this device?

breaker - 06 07 11 - 19:20

and thanks for update :)

breaker - 06 07 11 - 19:26

Sergey, a trak ball is an inverted mouse, we already have mouse support.

Aside from that there's no real way to emulate the feel of a trak ball any more than you can emulate the feel of a gun, the mouse offers the nearest alternative to both.

Learn a bit of patience young sir, asking for something a week ago and then asking why its not been instantly added may get on Avery's nerves, and we don't want to bite the hand that feeds us, do we..

Mclane - 06 07 11 - 20:34

Paul, I do not want to quarrel with anybody, I just want the emulator was as good as possible.
and if as you say "trak-ball - it's upside-down mouse", then why are other emulators atari add devices amiga mouse, atari st mouse and trak-ball?

Look at the screenshots of the settings of other emulators:

any ideas?

breaker - 06 07 11 - 20:57

I'm just stating that a trak ball is an inverted mouse in the way it works and its possible to config the mouse to work in the same way. I know that's not the same as actually seeing it as an added device in its own right but I'm just saying it possible to play Missile Command as a trak ball with the mouse giving the nearest effect.

I'd welcome a trak ball addition, that's not the point I was making, just lets wait and see what Avery adds on, there's quite a few things I've asked for that Avery has not commented on but I'm just happy that he's seen what I posted and put it on a list if he thinks its ok.

Sometimes multiple requests work but sometimes they just annoy, like you I want to see this emulator carry on getting better and better..

As its damn near perfect as it can be maybe some of our older requests might happen, maybe not, either way we'll love the emulator..

Mclane - 06 07 11 - 22:03

well, I'll wait for a response.
and repeat the request about the trak-ball unit I will not.

I do not even know that Avery will do next.
Emulator is already so developed that to come up with something interesting it becomes increasingly difficult.

breaker - 06 07 11 - 22:13

IDE: Initial SIDE emulation support.
GTIA: SECAM support.

there is no limit to perfection!
Thanks Avery for their excellent work.

breaker - 12 07 11 - 22:45

Is this a 'proper' release Breaker?

Mclane - 13 07 11 - 01:46

Paul, this question is not for me, I just posted a link for a new beta of the emulator.

breaker - 13 07 11 - 13:23

Avery, I want to ask.
color palette in video mode, SECAM, must differ from the palette of the video PAL or NTSC?

breaker - 13 07 11 - 13:42

This test release was mainly to help with SIDE development, but I wouldn't mind more testing. It does also fix a small issue with crackling on reset.

SECAM currently uses the same palette as PAL. I don't know what the palette behavior is for FGTIA yet, and it's very hard to find information on SECAM Ataris. Some FAQs even say that the FGTIA was never made even though there are people that definitely have them. The reason I implemented SECAM is that there is an anomaly in the trigger handling of the FGTIA that can break software written for cartridges that can be disabled. I have some ideas about SECAM artifacting too -- notably, SECAM only broadcasts red and blue chroma on alternating scanlines like DV and unlike NTSC/PAL -- but I need confirmation from someone who's actually seen the display of a SECAM Atari.

Phaeron - 13 07 11 - 16:12

thanks for the explanation, Avery.
I've only seen working PAL atari video mode.

breaker - 13 07 11 - 16:33

Sergey just to explain my comment to you.

I had not seen an official Phaeron post in any of the usual places, so if it came from the private location I was going to say it might be worth mentioning it when you point to it just in case its not 100% finished.

There have been a couple of times when the emulator was still being worked on..

I know Avery said it was ok to post them but they might be unfinished...Not attacking you...

Mclane - 13 07 11 - 20:39

Paul, I understood.
by the way already has a beta № 12

breaker - 13 07 11 - 22:01

I'll wait for *his* release :)

Mclane - 13 07 11 - 23:06

I see have decided to post updates before they are released on a regular basis.

Beta 13 is now described as being released....

Mclane - 16 07 11 - 02:11

I guess I should start putting (PRERELEASE) in the window caption. Oh well, maybe I'll get more testing.

Version with trackball support (CX-80 and 5200):

The 5200 trackball is configured the same as the 5200 controller. You will probably want to use a different binding mode for its axes, though, such as absolute instead of relative. In practice, because of the way the 5200 trackball works, it won't actually add much to games since the only real benefit you get from it is that it acts like an auto-centering joystick, which you already get in an emulator. Similarly, the CX-80 trackball is basically a big upside-down mouse and you configure it in the emulator like one, with the same caveat about possibly using absolute mode.

The CX-22/early CX-80 mode seemed to work with the XL/XE test programs that I had, and the 5200 one works with Pengo and Missile Command. Oddly, the XE version of Missile Command seems to support two different trackballs without you telling which one (!). It supports both the CX-22 style velocity / direction encoding and the ST mouse encoding. So far it's the only program I know of that does this, as others took only one or the other. I suck at Missile Command, by the way.

Phaeron - 16 07 11 - 19:24

Breaker...Kneel before Phaeron..You got your wish..

Beginning to think Avery has adopted Breaker :)

Mclane - 16 07 11 - 19:45

Paul, do not yell.
I came home from work and am going to watch the new version. :)

better and better.
Avery, thank you for your understanding, you are simply the best programmer of all the emulators how I know.

breaker - 17 07 11 - 01:27

hmm ..
I managed to get a list of games that use the trak-ball.

- Catch 88 by Simon Trew, 1991 - Supports Multi-Mouse Trakball Driver by Simon Trew
- Hardwaretester/Peripheral Test 2.0 by Florian Dingler, 2008
- Kriss Kross by Simon Trew, 1992 - Supports Multi-Mouse Trakball Driver by Simon Trew
- Knight Quest by Simon Trew, 1991 - Supports Multi-Mouse Trakball Driver by Simon Trew
- Missile Command by Atari ([CTRL+T] for trackball mode)
- Missile Command+ by Paul Lee, 2005 ([CTRL+T] for trackball mode)
- Multi-Mouse Trakball Driver by Simon Trew for New Atari User #42 1990
- Othello by Simon Trew, 1991 - Supports Multi-Mouse Trakball Driver by Simon Trew
- Slime by Steve Hales for Synapse, 1982 (press [T] for trackball mode)
- Centipede
- Millipede
- Final Legacy

work fine games such as:
missile comand and missile comand +
before the game starts you need to press ctrl + t.

also works fine game "slime".
before the game you must press "T".

in mode atarri 5200 I checked the game centipede, it seems the game runs good.

that the driver "Multi-Mouse Trakball Driver by Simon Trew"?
where can I get it?

I look at this topic at:

I'm not sure, but maybe I found a small error.
I created a control for the 5200 trackball.
but this mode is not shown
Input ---> Port 1
it can only select from a menu input mappings.

I put my configuration file.
Avery please take a look this file.

breaker - 17 07 11 - 02:56

This is how it looks:

please, fix it.

breaker - 17 07 11 - 16:14

Fixes port menu issue with 5200 trackball:

Phaeron - 20 07 11 - 16:18

thanks for update, Avery :)

breaker - 21 07 11 - 00:44

mmm ...
and that the changes in version 2.0 test 16?

breaker - 21 07 11 - 01:15

Avery, is it possible to run on the Atari 5200 video mode altirra "SECAM"?
you said that the atari 5200 produced only NTSC and PAL consoles was not, but can be had atari 5200 SECAM?
I would be very happy if it were possible to choose the atari 5200 secam.

when choosing atari 5200 in altirra, Section PAL - not selected.
Section SECAM - selected, but will not start.

breaker - 21 07 11 - 17:40

first line of the wrong writed

*is it possible to run on the altirra Atari 5200 video mode "SECAM"?

breaker - 21 07 11 - 17:48

Test-16 fixed a bug where MaxFlash cartridges weren't flashing properly. That was a regression from when I added SIC! cartridge support.

No, you're not supposed to be able to select SECAM in 5200 mode. I've blocked that now. This version also contains a fix for a regression where horizontal scrolling broke in a specific case (HSCROL writes early in a scanline).

Phaeron - 26 07 11 - 17:41

Thanks Avery..

Thought I'd get that in before Sergey starts off his list of requests :)

Mclane - 26 07 11 - 18:25

thanks for the update Avery.
To be honest I have already run out ideas and requests.

I've got one wish which I expect a very long time.
Do not know Avery, whether you do it now, or will later.
I would like to improvements in emulate cassette player and support for the regime "Turbo 2000".
I dream about these tapes loading from the nineties.

what do you say?
or will transfer it to the Next stable release?

breaker - 26 07 11 - 18:58

cassette player important component in the emulation atari and implemented it in altirra not very good.
there are quite a lot of games that are not loaded, such as:
Ghostbusters, Cops'n Robbers, Last V8 (The), preppie2 (atarex) and others.

in general, I would be very happy if you take up emulation of the cassette player.
I also promise to conduct a full test emulation cassette player.

breaker - 26 07 11 - 19:09

found a bug.
again horizontal stripe in the game "GreatAmericanCrossCountryRoadRace".

breaker - 26 07 11 - 19:39

Nice find...

Mclane - 26 07 11 - 22:16

DMACTL/HSCROL timing problem. This should fix it:

Phaeron - 28 07 11 - 18:53

That Hscrol is giving you serious headaches!

Thanks for the new build..

Mclane - 28 07 11 - 19:56

thanks for update, Avery :)

breaker - 29 07 11 - 04:13

Just read on AtariAge that Raster, a major contributor to the Atari scene has died in a train crash, poor bloke, he put so much into the scene and now has had his life snuffed out in an instant.

Just shows how fragile life is...

Mclane - 29 07 11 - 22:59

Avery, can you answer one question.

The SIO noise from loading, is it a man made sound just so you know your expensive disk drive was actually doing something or is it the actual noise of the data being moved?

Silly question I know but that and modem connect sounds have always made me wonder if they are genuine or just something to let you know something is happening.

Mclane - 31 07 11 - 00:09

ummm ...
Paul, you want the emulator has been added to SIO noise, this thin squeak?

breaker - 31 07 11 - 16:06

No sergey, you need a better translator program :)

I just want to find out what actually makes the SIO noise, is it the actual noise of the SIO data or is it a noise that Atari decided would be something to give the impression of data being loaded ie man made.

Mclane - 31 07 11 - 20:18

test 19.
Disk: Fixed incorrect serial transfer rates for XF551 high speed Put/Write and Write PERCOM commands.

breaker - 31 07 11 - 20:53

> The SIO noise from loading, is it a man made sound just so you know your expensive disk drive was actually doing something or is it the actual noise of the data being moved?

> Silly question I know but that and modem connect sounds have always made me wonder if they are genuine or just something to let you know something is happening.

The sound of a modem is for diagnostic purposes and is the actual data being sent over the phone line. The various sounds you hear are the phases of the connection process, including the modems recognizing each other, negotiating progressively higher speeds, training echo cancellation algorithms, etc. The static at the end is active connection, the noise caused by the data scrambling algorithm.

The Atari SIO sound is also for diagnostic purposes in that it lets you know disk access is going on. However, unlike the modem, it isn't the actual data you're hearing, but the data clock instead. The sound is different depending on a read or a write because the serial port mode is different (synchronous vs. asynchronous clock). The sound itself occurs because some of the timers in POKEY are shared between the audio portion and the serial port. Like with the modem, it isn't essential and can be shut off for silent transfers.

Phaeron - 01 08 11 - 00:17

Thank you Avery, I know it was a daft question but it was just one of those things that bugged me.

Thank you for taking the time to answer it..

Mclane - 01 08 11 - 00:33

thanks for the explanation of Avery.
I want to ask a question.
I know that sometimes I'm very annoying, but still ...
Will you add an emulator to emulate a particular XEGS?
this topic was discussed on the forum atari-age.
I understand that differences of xegs and 65xe little, but it is how it was on a real console, and in terms of accuracy is a desirable addition.
simply, this has not been in any emulator atari.

breaker - 01 08 11 - 00:57

Was playing Super Mario with my daughter on a Nes emulator and one feature of this emulator just felt perfect. It wasn't until I was messing about on my real 800XL on a TV and then on Altirra that it clicked.

I know the feature has been asked for and I'm not asking again, merely saying how nice it would be if it ever did...(ok, that's sort of asking :) )

Scanlines with 3 settings, light medium and heavy or a slider control.

Mclane - 02 08 11 - 02:16

Yes, a custom filter scanlines - it would be amazing.
but I'm afraid we did not see in altirra.
I got the impression that Avery does not like a filter scanlines.

breaker - 02 08 11 - 15:41

I can't remember the exact reason but I seem to remember that it wasn't easy to implement them on the current way he displays video.

Mclane - 03 08 11 - 01:04

found two minor bugs in the emulator interface altirra.
errors associated with opening and closing the cartridge.

1) if you press the eject button cartridge "Detach cartridge", the cartridge is removed, but still remains active button "Detach cartridge", although the cartridge slot is empty.

2) click "Attach cartridge", select any cartridge and open it.
in selection menu mapper for the cartridge, click "cancel".
emulator crash.

attaching a video of errors.

breaker - 03 08 11 - 13:51

Yes, if you fiddle with things just right you can still end up with a 5200 with no cart plugged in. Not too concerned about that at the moment.

Fixed a number of bugs in the disk explorer, added ability to browse actively mounted disks, and also added .ARC support (because no one uses ARC anymore on a real OS):

Phaeron - 03 08 11 - 15:20

Thanks for the update.
here's another, *. arc files are not displayed in the dialog for opening files.

breaker - 03 08 11 - 15:29

a pity that many discs anyway can not view.
tried to open the disc with games like Alley cat, amphibian!, Boulder dash ... nothing is displayed.

breaker - 03 08 11 - 15:41

You can't mount or boot an .arc file as a disk. They're used to store loose files, not disk images.

Also, you can't use the disk explorer to browse most games because it only works if there's a standard DOS filesystem on the disk. A booter game usually has a custom layout with no filenames.

Phaeron - 03 08 11 - 15:46

thanks for the explanation, Avery.

breaker - 03 08 11 - 15:53

test 21.

bugs fixed:
HLE: Screen setup now matches the display list and playfield addressing of the stock OS ROM.
HLE: Fixed cartridge handling so that cartridges are run after disk boot completes.
HLE: Added known RTS instruction at $E4C0.
HLE: CIO now allows SPECIAL commands to be issued on a closed IOCB.

breaker - 04 08 11 - 19:16

It also contains a fix for not being able to format double-sided disks, which I didn't add into the changelog because there was already an entry for fixing PERCOM block problems.

Phaeron - 04 08 11 - 19:33

thanks for the update Avery.
i do not mistake it or not finalized ...
in LLE mode in the emulator does not work game "Ninja" and also have a problem with the game "abracadabra".

breaker - 04 08 11 - 19:46

Avery, the function "Owerscan mode ---> OS screen only" - does not work correctly.
Some games are cut larger than normal.
please look at this video recording with an error.
tested on version 2.0 test 21.


breaker - 04 08 11 - 22:11

This is normal -- these games have taller screens than the OS screen, which is 192 scan lines. The Boulder Dash intro screen is 200 lines, Alley Cat is 202 lines, and Breath of the Dragon is 203.

Phaeron - 04 08 11 - 22:39

test 24.

bugs fixed:
Disk: Fixed H: device not handling zero-byte get/puts properly with burst I/O enabled (affected GET/PUT from BASIC).
Disk: H: device now supports OPEN with AUX1=7 to fix directory listing from DOS 2.5.

thanks for update, Avery :)

breaker - 07 08 11 - 17:34

Ah, you beat me to it. Test-24 also fixes a regression where formatting a disk in medium density (1040 sectors) from DOS 2.5 doesn't work properly and it still says ~700 sectors free.

Phaeron - 07 08 11 - 17:44

thanks again for the info Avery.
I am very grateful for the development of a best emulator atari.

mmm, I do not want to bother, but ...
can add as little bonus Features emulation XEGS?
I have this Sunday's birthday - it would be a good gift for me, please ;)

breaker - 07 08 11 - 17:50

Bah, consider any Altirra as a birthday gift (happy birthdays by the way), I recently hit 50 and was hoping for sprite ripping, font ripping, sap playing and a million and one other things...

Sadly Avery let me down, and on a man's half century ;)

Seriously, thanks for the update avery and Sergey, stop begging for XEGS, if you read all of AtariAge you would have seen Avery say he might just add it for fun, so, its on his list..

Everyone hates a begger ;)

Mclane - 07 08 11 - 20:38

beta 25

[features added]
* SoundBoard: Multiplier support.

artifex - 10 08 11 - 03:36

Thanks for the update.
Avery, what do you think about it
will you add in the emulator it audio device?

breaker - 10 08 11 - 04:55

Any chance of adding Xaudio2 support?

Thanks for doing this emulator ^_^/

mangamuscle - 11 08 11 - 03:16

Midimate: No. It has two purposes, MIDI and networking, both of which are a pain in the #&($*.

Xaudio2: Unlikely, as it requires a separate redist DLL. I'd probably go straight to WASAPI instead if I wanted to bypass DirectSound.

New version:

Includes heavy rewrites to POKEY emulation for speed as well as some GTIA and CPU optimizations, so please report any problems you find. This particularly speeds up cases where previously productivity apps would run slowly because the timers were stuck running at a ridiculous speed (220KHz). I've also added an MRU list for the Boot Image option.

Phaeron - 12 08 11 - 17:08

simply amazing:)

Avery thanks for your excellent work.
everything seems to work well.
any serious errors I not found.

but something I would like to note:

1) I'm not sure exactly, but I think that in the mode of sound "WaveOut" music in some games stutter starts, a little jerky, sometimes audible clicks.
especially if it can be seen briefly stop the emulator and then re-run, or after loading from "Recently booted".

2) would be nice to add the File menu, select "clear list".

breaker - 12 08 11 - 21:06

Avery, please look at this video-recording:

breaker - 12 08 11 - 21:43

The click that you hear when the emulator is restarted or rebooted is normal: it comes from the OS initializing POKEY and then starting the VBI routine, both of which toggle the console speaker. This happens on a real Atari. It's more noticeable in the emulator when Fast Boot is enabled as then both clicks occur next to each other.

The slight glitches after that are either the audio system recalibrating or an underflow in the audio buffer. A glitch or two may happen a second after you choose a menu option, as that disrupts the audio playback. If it happens after that, though, you may need to increase the audio latency setting. Switching to DirectSound can also help as DirectSound allows for lower latencies than WaveOut.

Phaeron - 13 08 11 - 13:47

Phaeron, I was looking at Project M version 1 & 2 (the wolfenstein clone) and it looks very wrong and the response to the keyboard is also very lagged but I can't remember if that was an issue anyway..

When either run the colours are all wrong and there's a weird striping on version 1....

Mclane - 14 08 11 - 04:40

Checked Altirra 1.9 and it runs on that ok but there's still a bit of lag in the keys...

I guess that because of the 3D

Mclane - 14 08 11 - 04:45

Ah, good catch. I thought testing with PM1.5 was enough, but I guess not:

Phaeron - 14 08 11 - 10:14

Thanks for the update.
I understand it will soon be the final release?

here is a list of changes for test 27:

features added:

Debugger: Break on expression command (bx) can now include address ranges.

bugs fixed:

Disk: Disk explorer now properly increments volume sequence number when modifying SpartaDOS X images.
HLE: Boot loader now sets DBYTLO/DBYTHI to $0400 before launching.
SoundBoard: Restricted $D5/D6xx mapping to $D500-D53F and $D600-D63F.

breaker - 14 08 11 - 14:51

Avery, it is possible to ask to add you a small option in the emulator?
I ask to add possibility to switch on and off "Attract mode".
I had today an error in the new version of the emulator and I do not know in what a problem.
Probably it is glitch in windows? But it can be and an error in altirra.

There was it so:
I have started the new version of the emulator altirra 2.0 test 27.
Has opened a cartridge "SDX444_sdx128.rom" and a disk "neoplay.atr".
In a current of any time I listened to music in a compatibility mode soundboard.
Then I have stopped a melody but the emulator did not close.
I have departed approximately on minutes 15.
Then I still read pages in the Internet and did another matters.
In general has passed somewhere minutes forty.
Then I was again switched to the emulator.
And the emulator hung,it did not react.
You can see result in it video:

breaker - 14 08 11 - 17:41

LOL... good catch, that was a fun bug. Fixed version:

It happened when a POKEY timer was active for more than two billion cycles before the IRQ was activated. Two billion cycles is a lot. Problem is, the Atari executes about 1.8 million cycles per second, so that happens in under 20 minutes. At 1500% turbo that's less than two minutes. Ordinarily I'm pretty careful about writing code that handles timestamp wraparound, but I missed the case where a timer is running deferred for longer than that. Now the emulator checks if a timer is more than two seconds old and kicks it forward to avoid the problem.

Phaeron - 14 08 11 - 21:51

strange behavior.
looking through the various dumps cartridges and happened to notice one oddity.

Game destiny - the cruiser (proto).
If this cartridge run in altirra we see the beginning of the game with a blue screen with the information.

But if we run the cartridge in the emulator atari 800winplus 4.0 we see a very different picture.
the game will begin with a title screen yellow colour, and go to blue screen only after pressing start.

that this is a bug in one of the emulators or inaccurate emulation?
What of emulators reproduces behaviour of a cartridge correctly?

video and dump the cartridge can be found here:

breaker - 16 08 11 - 20:33

ha, yellow screen - this is the title screen of game.
altirra in the title screen immediately switches is ignored.
if you put the emulation speed 10% then it becomes clearly evident that the began run in altirra title screen, just for a split second.
and then immediately switched to the blue screen.
In all other emulators title screen is not ignored.

breaker - 16 08 11 - 21:48

The problem is that Altirra is holding down the Option key to disable BASIC and the cartridge is detecting this. I need to try to find a better time to release Option when BASIC isn't desired, but I'll probably do that post 2.00 final.

Phaeron - 16 08 11 - 22:03

and for what it's done, what key "Option" pressing at the start?
because the emulator has the option of "Basic (boot without option key" only if this option is enabled then runs BASIC.

can not rush to release a stable version 2.0?
Correct the error, maybe I still find some inaccuracy.

breaker - 16 08 11 - 22:16

test 29:

features added
Debugger: Added dump double words (dd) command.

test 30:

features added
Disk: Fixed a couple of bugs with DCM disk image decoding.

breaker - 18 08 11 - 01:48

They know about the system in the cassette Injektor Atari? Can be implemented in the emulator?

nsonic - 20 08 11 - 10:46

Sorry ... here image about Injektor.

nsonic - 20 08 11 - 10:48

I started an Options dialog:

Error handling mode and full screen mode are now selectable. The full screen mode selection is a bit fragile, but it should work in D3D9 mode. The DirectDraw code doesn't support real full screen so it'll go "fake full screen" instead.

Phaeron - 24 08 11 - 15:06

thanks for the update Avery.
I have long waited for such settings.

but why they are in the section of "tools"?
why these settings can not be placed in:
System ---> Video ---->
because it would be so much easier.

to be completely happy only lacks access to the settings in the full-screen mode.

still have questions such as:

1) Why not set the resolution lower than 640x480?
2) Will add advanced settings for sound (Sample rate 8 - 48 Khz)?

and once again many thanks for the update, the emulator is getting better and better.
to be honest I was thinking that you will release a stable version 2.0.
nice job.

breaker - 24 08 11 - 15:42

Avery, *. act and *. pal files - it's the same thing or not?

breaker - 24 08 11 - 18:01

Easy way to find out, rename the exported PAL to an act and try it in Win Plus.

I suspect they are the same...

Mclane - 25 08 11 - 23:39

Hey I am not taken into account. I just want to know if ever deployed to the emulator that can record cassette.

nsonic - 26 08 11 - 00:26

nsonic, do not worry.
comes to that and to the cassette player.
I'm sure Avery will emulate the cassette player to the 2.1 or 2.2 version.
now much more important to make access to the settings in a full-screen mode and add filters.

breaker - 26 08 11 - 02:23

breaker thank you very much.

nsonic - 26 08 11 - 06:39

As none of the beta testers have any control over what's added I think you might be a bit early with that thank you.

Mclane - 27 08 11 - 02:46

Paul, you should definitely be as harmful, or it comes with age?
I only said that probably will be added in future versions.
not to be confused with the realities or probability.
altirra very fast-paced emulator, even 2 or 3 stable version of the emulator and then have nowhere to grow.

breaker - 27 08 11 - 13:35

Btw, Avery, thanks for the mapping on the joystick, turbo is dead handy :)

Mclane - 27 08 11 - 19:15

Altirra 2.0 test 32.

features added:
Debugger: Go (g) command now has options to preserve and force source mode.
Debugger: Added batch (.batch) command.
Debugger: Added source mode control (.sourcemode) command.
Debugger: Commands can now be queued to run when an EXE loads or runs.
Debugger: Source line breakpoints can now be set prior to line debug information being available.

bugs fixed:
Debugger: Improved parsing of MADS listings.
Debugger: Fixed command escaping so that escapes are no longer processed unless enabled, i.e. \"foo\nbar".
UI: Adjusted default NTSC color preset. The old preset is still available.

Avery, in test number 32, I discovered a bug that causes it to hang the emulator.
If you go to the configuration:
System ---> Video ---> Adjust colors
when trying to get out of this setup the emulator crash.
watch this video:

breaker - 27 08 11 - 20:06

test 33.
thanks for update.
but all the same emulator crashes when closing the dialog "Adjust colors".

breaker - 28 08 11 - 15:47

I checked all three modes of rendering the emulator.
works properly only Direct3D 9 mode.
only in Direct3D 9 mode, you can change the resolution for full-screen mode.
Directdraw and OpenGL full-screen mode are ignored, just put up the resolution from the desktop.
This can be verified easily by checking with the video recording of the program "Fraps".

I found another bug with the interface emulator.
Avery, please look at this video-recording:

breaker - 28 08 11 - 16:13

Sorry, I was a bit pressed for time in pushing these out for someone, so I didn't get a chance to explain. Here's a version with a fix for the Adjust Colors dialog hang:

The Direct3D 9 driver is the only one that actually supports mode switches; the GDI, DirectDraw, and OpenGL drivers don't. I probably won't be implementing that for 2.0, although I did fix the bug where the title bar was left on screen when the drivers went to fake full screen mode.

There was also a fix for a pretty bad bug in earlier versions that was reported by email, which is a crash when Data Execution Prevention (DEP) was enabled. I didn't mention it in the changelist since it was only in the test releases, but I think I introduced it around test26.

As for a few of the things you mention above:
- The reason for putting Options under Tools is that I want to put a lot more there besides just video and error options.
- I can't find any info on Injektor other than the picture of the box, which isn't helpful. If it's a standard turbo tape add-on it has the same challenges as any other turbo tape hardware modification.
- As I've said, a full screen UI is a lot of work and this is not likely to come anytime soon. In particular, I do not want to put in a UI at Atari resolution (320x200) because it is usually a bad UI experience.
- There isn't a lower limit on resolution in the emulator, but modern video drivers usually don't expose any below 640x480.
- I don't see a point to adjusting the sound playback rate. It won't make the emulation any faster to use 8-22KHz.

Phaeron - 29 08 11 - 16:43

Phaeron, the system was used in Chile Injektor. Do not know if it was exclusive use but is similar to the Turbo, such as a video game down to 60 blocks 25 blocks. I'll get to know information such as Injektor. But like I so upset by this that at least managed to record in the emulator.

nsonic - 30 08 11 - 00:21

Thanks for updating of Everi, you as always not unmatched.
Probably it is last бета before an exit of the stable version.

But all allow me to ask for you 2 more small improvements for the emulator:

1) add please possibility to load into the emulator palette files *.act and *.pal.
It is possible to add the button "import".

2) it is a bit more difficult, but I all hope for understanding.
I have faced a small problem at work with games and programs writing in the language BASIC.

Is very much касет containing games (program) writing on the BASIC which it is possible to look through by means of "LIST" command.
Also I can print big enough programs on BASIC.
How to me to keep these programs?

You have a fine utility "PASTE" which allows to insert any text or the program написаную on BASIC into the emulator.
However you do not have utility operating on the contrary, allowing to keep the text in a file.

You can make чтото the similar?
I would be very grateful to you.

breaker - 30 08 11 - 01:06

oh sorry, the interpreter a bit crippled by your name;)

One more question:
I was looking through the emulator using the "Resource hacker".
What kind of dialogue number 160?
I have been unable to find a window like this up?

breaker - 30 08 11 - 01:20

looks like a transfer status window, to do with the SIDE??

Mclane - 30 08 11 - 03:31

Maybe PClink..

Mclane - 30 08 11 - 04:03

Avery, forgive if I am being wrong but apart from using the E to edit memory there does not seem to be a fill command.

I have to admit I'm not as familiar with the debugger as I should be which leads me to another quick question, how would I force Altirra to jump to a location (or jsr) say for sillyness E477. How would i do that as I see no direct jump command?


Mclane - 30 08 11 - 04:17

I was checking the version 34 and presents a problem when loading a file cas. I attached the error image.

nsonic - 31 08 11 - 11:41

Whoops, fixed:

It was caused by some under-the-hood changes I'd made to move toward some additional cassette support. Note that this version has some accuracy improvements for disk I/O as well.

> 1) add please possibility to load into the emulator palette files *.act and *.pal.
> It is possible to add the button "import".

I've previously already said why this is problematic.

> You have a fine utility "PASTE" which allows to insert any text or the program написаную on BASIC into the emulator.
> However you do not have utility operating on the contrary, allowing to keep the text in a file.

Two ways:
1) Enable Hard Disk (H:), and do: LIST "H:FILE.TXT". You can also do ENTER to read it back in, or LOAD/SAVE for binary format.
2) Enable the Printer Output window and then do "LIST P:". This will only work if you do not have control characters (inverse).

PCLink will work too, but is a very roundabout way of doing so since you will have to boot SpartaDOS X + PCLINK.SYS first.

> What kind of dialogue number 160?

This is a generic progress dialog. It is currently used when loading a .WAV file tape takes a long time, but can be used for more things in the future. The text for it comes from code. I have been meaning to look at solutions to make localization easier but haven't gotten around to it yet (localization is hard, Atari is easier). In the meantime, if you extract resource.h from the file, it contains the original program names for those IDs.

Phaeron - 31 08 11 - 19:36

thanks for the update:)

>> Two ways:
1) Enable Hard Disk (H:), and do: LIST "H: FILE.TXT". You can also do ENTER to read it back in, or LOAD / SAVE for binary format.
2) Enable the Printer Output window and then do "LIST P:". This will only work if you do not have control characters (inverse).

Avery, so I get a txt file with the text.
I also need to produce a *. bas file containing the program.

breaker - 31 08 11 - 19:43

emulation printer does not work.
or am I doing something wrong?
please see this video:

breaker - 31 08 11 - 20:14

a simple example.
I type the following text:

20 FOR A = 0 TO 100

use emulation hard drive and store the program in a text file.
but, when view the file we visible error.
program is stored incorrectly when you open a text file so we can see the text of the program:

10 REM PROGA> 20 FOR A = 0 TO 100> 30 PRINT "BU-BU-BU"> 40 NEXT A>

this version differs from the original and is incorrect.
when you insert a text into the emulator using the command "Paste" the emulator is not able to reproduce the program.

If I try to bring the text to the printer with the command:


I get the error.
you can see in this video that I put.

breaker - 31 08 11 - 20:52

But I am very grateful to you for the tip.
If to use emulation of a hard disk and to keep the program through:

It perfectly works.
At last I can load programs written on language BASIC and save them in a kind *.bas files.
Received *.bas files perfectly work in emulators.

Thanks Avery!

breaker - 31 08 11 - 21:29

Info about Injektor Cassette.

nsonic - 01 09 11 - 03:43

Here I leave you to download a wav file recorded for injektor.
To prove it in the emulator.

nsonic - 01 09 11 - 10:45

I was very interested in cartridges from this page:

interestingly, the cartridges of the type "C" work in altirra and atari800 winplus, some games are really buggy.
but anyway they are working, you should use Williams64 mapper.

but the cartridge type "D" and "E" do not go beyond the menu.
mapper to use Atrax128.

Avery, you can fix the problem that these cartridges normally work?
it would be very interesting.

breaker - 01 09 11 - 16:36

Avery, we are behind!
krotki added to your emulator mappers for turbo cartridges.
and in the latest releases altirra these cartridges did not work.
download a new build of atari 800win:

see this video:

I am very sad.

breaker - 05 09 11 - 22:43

Avery, I know you like your obscure bugs, well here's one..(possibly)

There one of the Atarimax 8meg carts called 39 disks on one rom, its a very classy little cart but I spotted that Rescue on Fractulas (game 3 on the menu) has garbage in the status screen, any words are followed by a filled in character squares, this is not seen on the ATR's.

ie the words Rescue on Fractulas seen on screen look like this (imagine the % as a square)


I mentioned this on the forum fir the file and I was told it was fine on a 1200XL, I don't have a cart to test this but I see no reason to disbelieve him.

Mclane - 06 09 11 - 01:10

Thanks Paul ;)
The excellent cartridge, class music plays prompt.
please tell me from which game this animated picture on the front screen of the cartridge?

Concerning strips in game "rescue on fractalus" - I think it such cartridge, they there have spoilt something in fonts.
or can be an emulation 1200 XL incomplete.
Emulators both altirra and atari800 winplus both show these strips.

breaker - 06 09 11 - 03:27

Breaker that page to download Atari800 you placed this very good, especially the emulator has the option of recording tape.

nsonic - 06 09 11 - 04:18

The guy says it works on a real 1200, not emulator

I don't know where the picture is from, bards tale or some such..

Mclane - 06 09 11 - 19:28

Come on guys, enough with the tape recording hints, Avery has heard you numerous times, if it was me doing the coding and people kept on asking for the same things after 1. they had been asked not to keep asking and 2.the author had acknowledged the request then *I* would simply not add the feature for being pestered.

Avery has heard you, lets see what he does, who knows what great little addition we will get..or not...

Breaker, thought you would have played that 39 in one rom hence I never mentioned it...Really nice little production isn't it.

Mclane - 06 09 11 - 19:41

breaker> Avery, we are behind! krotki added to your emulator mappers for turbo cartridges.

Gotta give the credit where it's due. Hadn't you posted the link over here, I wouldn't know that these cartridges existed at all.

Krótki - 07 09 11 - 08:51

krotki, thank you for your emulator and the Progress Report:)
I hope I can here someone to stir up;)

breaker - 07 09 11 - 15:10

Paul, turns out it was a mistake in the cartridge.
now posted a revised image of the cartridge.
Now labels are displayed correctly.

see here:

breaker - 07 09 11 - 17:04

That's good, as you can see I asked for the bug or mistake to be confirmed, thankfully the guy read it.

Sorry about that Avery, just shows that the confirmed as ok actually was a mistake.

Mclane - 07 09 11 - 19:22

Paul, please tell me whether there are any images of the cartridges with such interesting screensaver?

breaker - 07 09 11 - 19:33

As far as I know that is the only cart I've seen with such a nice interface, all the others are plain menu's..

Mclane - 07 09 11 - 20:52

More on the Turbosoft cartridges. There apparently were two versions of the 64KB "Turbocartridge". Most of the 64KB images from use the Williams mapping, however two of them (C2 and D8) use the Turbosoft mapping. All 128KB images use the Turbosoft mapping, but they actually also work with the "Atarimax" mapping (the mappings are almost identical - for details, see DOC/cart.txt in Atari800).

Krótki - 07 09 11 - 21:49

Thanks Krotki, nice to see a bit of mixed emulator help..

Mclane - 07 09 11 - 22:03

There is still something interesting.
You probably think that turbo-cartridges of only 16 pieces.
But it not so.
At a forum it is possible to find out 2 more, hidden cartridges.

breaker - 07 09 11 - 22:39

Nice find Breaker..

Mclane - 07 09 11 - 23:30

The page retrogames I gave her to know about the issue of cassette.
But other credits are leads.
Too bad: (

nsonic - 08 09 11 - 00:19

nsonic, do not worry you so.
we reach to that.
still not able to load altirra not that turbo tapes or records of injektor.
altirra even ordinary cassettes, not all can loading.

breaker - 08 09 11 - 13:10

Sorry for not responding earlier, I just got Disgaea 4. :)

Here's an updated build:

I've been cleaning up a lot of loose ends; this build includes single-instance (reuse window) mode, XEGS emulation, and small 800 memory configs (8K/24K/32K/40K). The XEGS emulation is almost pointless because it's so similar to the 800, but there are slight hardware differences in TRIG2 and PORTB that could screw up a program. I might do 1200XL if I'm bored enough as it's minor too. You can blame Rybags for requesting the small memory configs. :)

Note that I don't mention changes in the changelist that are within a test series, so here are some other changes in the build:
* The program is now compiled in UNICODE mode. You probably won't notice this since the file routines were already Unicode enabled, but you may notice this if you have window hooking tools or had foreign language filenames showing up garbled in the UI.
* Direct3D9 and OpenGL display modes are now enabled over Remote Desktop. This gives a better display when remoting between Vista and Windows 7 machines.
* Fixed a regression in POKEY emulation caused by the deferred timer optimization, specifically when resetting 16-bit timers.
* Added a two-cycle delay to POKEY serial timers to improve serial accuracy (needed to pass some yet unpublished Acid800 tests regarding cycle-exact serial output).
* Some debugger fixes.
* The memory configs are no longer blocked by kernel (OS), but by hardware.
* I haven't updated the command line switches yet, but you can use /singleinstance or /nosingleinstance to force single instance mode without switching the UI option in Options.

Now, as for some of the comments above:

> emulation printer does not work.
or am I doing something wrong?

You need to reset for the printer (P:) to be available. It's a CIO hook and doesn't get enabled except during boot.

> use emulation hard drive and store the program in a text file.
but, when view the file we visible error.
program is stored incorrectly when you open a text file so we can see the text of the program:

This happens because Altirra currently doesn't do end of line (EOL) conversion for the H: device -- it's been on the TODO list.

> Avery, we are behind!
krotki added to your emulator mappers for turbo cartridges.

This is actually a good thing -- it means there will be mode codes for it in the CAR format, and it also means there is someone improving Atari800. Thank Krotki for blazing a trail. :)

Cartridge mappers are generally pretty quick to implement, so I'll probably do it in the next pass or so.

> Come on guys, enough with the tape recording hints, Avery has heard you numerous times, if it was me doing the coding and people kept on asking for the same things after 1. they had been asked not to keep asking and 2.the author had acknowledged the request then *I* would simply not add the feature for being pestered.

Yes, please. I promise I'll circle back to improve the tape support, just not now. The last round of changes I made to the tape code were to prepare for some of this down the road. I want to look at supporting the A8CAS format, but that will require not always converting everything to FSK internally and allowing for variable FSK encoding rates (currently the sampling rate is low, thus the baud rate issues with CAS).

Phaeron - 08 09 11 - 19:37

Features added:
UI: Added single instance option.
Debugger: Ctrl+Up/Down from output window command line now scrolls log pane by single lines.
Simulator: Added 800 8K/24K/32K/40K configurations.
Simulator: Added XEGS support.

Bugs Fixed:
UI: Direct3D9/OpenGL rendering now works over Remote Desktop with Windows Vista/7.

Avery, Mega thanks!
really looking forward to adding mappers "turbosoft cartridge".

small question:
that the file should be used as the system BIOS XEGS?
it should be called "REV04.ROM" or as something else.
may be worth adding to the menu "Rom Images" button "search images" as is done in the emulator atari 800winplus?

Incidentally there is a small error, see, this is the default:

breaker - 08 09 11 - 19:50

ups !
Avery sorry!
as I wrote in your blog you have already published news.

breaker - 08 09 11 - 19:53

Thanks for the single instance, proof you DO have a list that you keep and tick things off as I asked for this many moons ago.

Breaker, see.....He has not forgotten things :)

Mclane - 08 09 11 - 21:03

Phaeron, if I am really very upset with the theme of the cassette.
I trust you and know that A8CAS implemented in the emulator.
Sorry for the inconvenience to you and the whole group.

nsonic - 09 09 11 - 04:52

Sorry for my English. It may sound offensive.
Occupied the Google translator.
Greetings to all.

nsonic - 09 09 11 - 04:55


Phaeron said about 5 posts above "I promise I'll circle back to improve the tape support, just not now."

So please stop asking for it...He also asked people in the same post to stop asking for it...

He going to do it at some point..relax :)

Mclane - 09 09 11 - 19:34

Adds the new cartridge types and search/fill functionality in the debugger:

I missed the comment about the ROM image issue -- it's a bug in the code that saves it. I messed up the array order. I'll fix it on the next revision.

AFAIK there is no standard name for the XEGS kernel ROM image. What you should have for it is a 16K image; the BASIC and Missile Command (game) ROM images should be separate. I've heard rumors that the XL/XE and XEGS operating systems are actually the same and it's just that the XEGS support was added in a later revision.

Phaeron - 11 09 11 - 13:39

Thanks to Avery for your work.

breaker - 11 09 11 - 14:13

Avery, I think for the complete collection can be added emulate 1200XL, suddenly come in handy.

Paul, I beg you, please do not criticize and try to just listen to me.

Avery, you have added emulation of consoles XEGS and various options for the memory for the early models atari.
I want to ask you to add 2 more small improvements emulator.
may seem a bit silly they are, but it would be more correct, it will be more accurate.

I'm talking about support BASIC in the early models of atari.
If you look at the boot atari earlier models can be seen that this is done in altirra not correct.
Read the FAQ page:
See section "Subject: 1.2) What is the Atari 400?" and "Subject: 1.3) What is the Atari 800?".
it says:
Boot options:
Memo Pad
- Turn on computer with no cartridge inserted and no powered disk drive.
- Turn on computer with cartridge inserted.
1. Hold down [START] while turning on the computer.
(System buzzer sounds.)
2. Press [PLAY] on the program recorder.
3. Press [RETURN] to load and run cassette program.
- Turn on computer with disk inserted in powered disk drive.

everything is done correctly, but there is one inaccuracy.
If I turn on the option "BASIC (Boot without option key)" then first condition:
>>> Memo Pad
- Turn on computer with no cartridge inserted and no powered disk drive.
is not satisfied.

instead of running "memo pad" I see BASIC.
This is wrong.
on the early models Atari 400, 800 and 1200XL BASIC was not available initially.
BASIC there can only be seen in the case when I insert into the slot for cartridges, cartridge with BASIC.

I beg you, please do so by selecting Firmware OS-A, OS-B or Atari 1200XL - option "BASIC (Boot without option key)" has been blocked so as was done when choosing atari 5200.

BASIC on these models should be included only if in the slot for cartridge is inserted into the cartridge containing BASIC.

and if possible, add the emulation of Atari 1200XL.

this is a very small change.
you just have to add, just another item on the menu "Rom images" option and blocked "BASIC (Boot without option key)" when selecting models OS-A, OS-B and 1200XL.

so would be more correct, because, just as on real atari.
I hope for your understanding.

breaker - 11 09 11 - 15:54

Breaker, I have no problem with that

Mclane - 11 09 11 - 18:50

detected an error.
if open 8k cartridge and use a mapper OSS 8K - emulator crashes.
I tried to open several different cartridges the size of 8K using mappers OSS 8k and always has been an error.

breaker - 11 09 11 - 19:29

Here's the crashdump

Whats the difference between the 2 roms OSS and standard 8K

Mclane - 12 09 11 - 00:33

OSS 8K and ROM path shuffling should be fixed:

The OSS 8K mode is the same as the OSS M091 mode except that an 8K ROM is used instead of a 16K ROM. One difference between it and regular 8K is that the OSS 8K cart can be disabled whereas the standard 8K can't.

I hooked up the BASIC cart to the BASIC option for pre-800XL machines because it's such a commonly needed cartridge. I should change it to a different option now that the option's been renamed, but I'm not going to do it until after post 2.0.

Phaeron - 12 09 11 - 17:34

Thanks for new build the emulator and for understanding.
I will wait those changes.

Pair of small questions:

1) that for new an option "console switches---> Keyboard present (XEGS)", what this option does?

2) in the menu "rom images" I specify bios for xegs and a way to a cartridge for xegs but how me now to start the chosen game in a compatibility mode xegs?
I press at loading OS a key "F3 or F4" but game is not started.

breaker - 12 09 11 - 17:58

I understand that the option "console switches ---> Keyboard present (XEGS)" Enable or disable the keyboard in emulation mode XEGS.
I understand you correctly?

but in this case, this option does not work.
watch the video:

breaker - 12 09 11 - 18:38

Breaker, do you have the extra bios's for altirra ie the xegs and hdbios etc?

Mclane - 12 09 11 - 23:50

I have the Bios files for other systems such as xegs, 1200xl, 1450xl, and a few pieces ...
I spread them here:
where to get the Bios files for "KMK / JZ IDE; IDE plus; SIDE" - I do not know.
Avery may tell us ;)

breaker - 13 09 11 - 01:19

Thanks for the link, getting "The file you are trying to access is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later." at the momment, will try later...

Mclane - 13 09 11 - 02:38

How do you hook up an Xegs game?

I added the game in the firmware bios menu,held down F3 on boot and nothing..

Yet if I remove the game and hold F3 I get the internal placeholder for an Xegs game asking me to see the which does not exist (well nit the one that is for this version)

Mclane - 13 09 11 - 03:44

I accidentally learned how to run the game on xegs.
uncheck option "console switches ---> Keyboard present (XEGS)" and press reset (F5).
shifted the Bios files here:

breaker - 13 09 11 - 05:14

Avery, it is possible to ask to lay out you files of bios for hard disks?
Such files as are very necessary: IDE2006.rom, SDX444_ide+2.rom and a file bios from SIDE.
If you do not want to spread them for everything, it is possible to throw off these files to me in PM at a forum atari age.

breaker - 13 09 11 - 18:28

Not working for me, according to your ini in the bios rar you are using the rom named rev4 as the xegs rom, I'm doing the same and using the roms your posted as XEGS roms for the game .

I've unchecked the keyboard xegs and its just going to self test.

Have I missed a step?

Mclane - 13 09 11 - 20:08

Paul, unzip "Altirra-2.00-test38 + config_ & _bios.rar" in folder of the emulator.
go to Options:

System ---> Firmware ---> Rom images

Click the button in front of "xegs game" and point the way to the game, such as "missile command".
Remember the game must be in a file with the *. ROM.
then simply press the "F5".

I also put a file on all known to me BIOSes for hard drives. - Altirra-2.00-test38 + config_ & _bios.rar - hard drive bioses.

breaker - 13 09 11 - 21:40

OK, just to be sure, that revo4 rom IS the xegs kernal?

Mclane - 13 09 11 - 22:12

All good now thanks, I was trying to use xegs roms and not normal ones...Senior moment

Mclane - 13 09 11 - 22:18

yes, Rev04 = XEGS bios.

breaker - 14 09 11 - 01:16


Mclane - 17 09 11 - 04:48


Mclane - 20 09 11 - 02:27

Sorry, was being rude there, meant to say Breaker and everyone else..

Its a new Maxflash rom image with games, another nice menu..

Mclane - 20 09 11 - 02:48

Thanks Paul, you're a true friend.
good game, a beautiful logo and cool music.
Interestingly, the cartridge "freewareCart_256k.rom" - does not work in any emulator.
here looking for a new mapper.

breaker - 20 09 11 - 16:00

played in one of my favorite games "oils well" and was very disappointed with the sound: (
Avery, please look at this video-recording.
here compared to the sounds of the game "oils well" in versions of the emulator altirra 1.9 and 2.0 test 38.
in altirra 1.9 sound much better.
in the 2.0 test 38 bit sound as though stretched and distorted, especially noticeable in moments of swallowing enemies and sound after taking the cup.
Can this somehow fix it?

breaker - 21 09 11 - 17:40

Oops... regression in 16-bit timer handling. Fixed version:

This version also allows finer grained speed adjustments by 1%. I forgot to add this to the change log.

I also have some fixes pending for display issues with the Windows 8 Developer Preview, but I doubt anyone's hitting those at the moment.

Phaeron - 22 09 11 - 18:02

I got freewareCart_256K.rom to work. It is similar to the existing MegaCart 1M mapper in that it is bank switched by data written to $D5xx and can be disabled by bit 7, but it is unrelated to the previous MegaCarts. It's actually called "Megacart" with a lowercase C, and apparently was a winner in an ABBUC contest. It uses an 8K bank at $A000-BFFF and powers up in bank 0. Here's a version of Altirra that supports it. Select Megacart 1M (2) as the mapper.

I also fixed the sort so the list is less messy.

This version also has support for the newer MaxFlash 1MB cartridge hardware that has a different power-up bank, since I thought that was the issue before I realized what cartridge hardware was actually used. You're unlikely to encounter an image that requires it as the MaxFlash software generates carts that boot in any bank, but it's useful for testing (the first version of Sheddy's Space Harrier port didn't work on newer carts for this reason).

Phaeron - 22 09 11 - 19:52

Hi avery, if I set the speed option to 1% its goes ultra fast, if I set it to 2% it goes fast then stops for a sec, it then repeats this on and on.

3% and above is fine...

Mclane - 22 09 11 - 23:55

Thanks Avery, you're the best!
and what to disconnect the keyboard in XEGS emulation mode ?
it is implemented?

breaker - 23 09 11 - 00:44

Its down at the bottom of the system tab under console switches

Mclane - 23 09 11 - 01:22

Avery, just been playing again with the speed setting.....On mine the 1% works if using Opengl BUT once you set it it stays at 1% no matter if you change it and reboot the emulator or just change it..It stays at 1% or what ever you set it to..

The only way to stop this is to enable a DD mode but then the 1 & 2% modes run ultra fast..

Mclane - 23 09 11 - 01:30

yes with speed that is wrong.
setting a 1% I get too fast speed.

Paul, you do not understand.
about disabling the keyboard I would say this:
if I disable the keyboard (optional System ---> console switches ---> Keyboard present (XEGS)) in that case I can not print text and use the keyboard.
but it is not, for example starting with the BASIC cartridge I press buttons and text printing.
with disabled keyboard??
this is wrong.

breaker - 23 09 11 - 01:41

Oh I see, no idea there..Just thought you had lost the setting to see.

One for Avery to look at...

Mclane - 23 09 11 - 05:30

found a few interesting ink cartridges for the turbo-loading.
information can be found here: and
images of the cartridges and the schemes can be downloaded here:

atares_blizzard.rom and atares_phoenix_1.0.rom - work well in altirra.
but this cartridge "AST_multi_cartridge.bin" - I could not run, Avery, you can add one more mapper?

download these 3 cartridges here:

breaker - 23 09 11 - 18:08

The AST multi-cart mapper is already there: select 47: AST 32K. You have to hold SELECT on boot for it to activate.

Phaeron - 23 09 11 - 19:22

Yeah, of course.
but if I run the cartridge and hold F3 (select) then the emulator crash.

breaker - 23 09 11 - 19:44

Don't hold F3 then :)

Mclane - 23 09 11 - 22:35

I think now Avery set a new record for the number of beta releases.

breaker - 23 09 11 - 23:09

As they say in the States "It's all good"

There's got to be at least one more beta I'd have thought...

Mclane - 24 09 11 - 00:18

new record !
but speed options not fixed :(

breaker - 28 09 11 - 17:35

Adding link location for those that don't read Atariage

Mclane - 28 09 11 - 21:17

Sergey, you know you asked about the picture on the front of that fancy maxiflash cartridge, the one with the guy playing the lute?

I said at the time I thought it was Bards Tale, well I wasn't far off, it was Bards Tale 3

Mclane - 03 10 11 - 04:13

thanks Paul :)

breaker - 03 10 11 - 16:22

Avery, I discovered a strange and very funny mistake in altirra.
game "Henry house" you can still loading in video NTSC mode with disabled SIO-PATCH.
Please see this video:

breaker - 05 10 11 - 21:05

The problem I was seeing with Henry's House only occurred with fast boot on, I think.

This version has some fixes for cas issues:

Phaeron - 12 10 11 - 19:02

Thanks Avery..

Mclane - 12 10 11 - 19:36

Thank you Avery.
I checked a lot of cassettes, the result is almost perfect.
but some of the tapes are defined not correctly, please see these entries:

1) Cops'n Robbers
actual length - 09:52
determines the emulator - 10:04.3

2) Sea Bandit
actual length - 1:44
determines the emulator - 01:56.8

3) Speed ​​Ace (1987) (Zeppelin Games) (GB)
actual length - 12:07
determines the emulator - 12:19.9

would also like to ask 2 small improvements in the emulator:
- I would like to count the time not only shows the current boot time, but the time remaining until the end of the boot.
such as 02:10:10 / 09:25:30.
- And please, if not difficult to add the ability to disable the attractive mode, it is very annoying during loading cassettes.

thanks for your excellent work.

3 records as wav files and cas can be downloaded here:

breaker - 13 10 11 - 01:10

You can disable the attract mode within the monitor, I don't have my Mapping the Atari handy or I'd tell you the address to alter..

Mclane - 13 10 11 - 05:51

Thanks for the wav files. Breaker

nsonic - 13 10 11 - 13:38

Altirra doesn't know when the load is going to finish, and the attract mode is a function of the Atari OS. The same thing happens if you load the tape on a real machine, and pressing any key cancels it. I don't think it's appropriate -- or in some cases, safe -- to disable this.

The reason for the 12 seconds is that the emulator adds 10 seconds to the front and 2 seconds to the back to ensure that the tape loads. Some .cas files don't have the required amount of leader at the beginning of the tape to properly clear the OS's initial start delay. I could probably reduce or eliminate the lead-in in the cases where the tape image already has the required leader time.

Phaeron - 14 10 11 - 20:09

thanks for the explanation, Avery.
I also noticed that you have corrected the error to 1% the speed of the emulator, thanks !

but what about the time counter at the time of loading tapes?
It would be very convenient if the show current time load and the total length tape.

breaker - 14 10 11 - 22:02

thanks for update to test 43 ;)
whats new ?

breaker - 16 10 11 - 00:57

thanks for the update to the test 44.

Avery, I found a strange key, which emerged from beta 20.
if you click on this button emulator crash.
I did a screen shot of an error, please correct.

breaker - 17 10 11 - 16:02

The chances are its a totally unfinished build Sergey..

Mclane - 17 10 11 - 19:43

Whoops, it's trying to explore D16:. I'll fix that next drop.

Test-43 contains a fix for an STIMER regression in POKEY; I only discovered it doing PCM audio, but there may be some other digisound code that was affected. This version also has some fixes for double and quad density disk issues:

Phaeron - 19 10 11 - 17:40

quad density disk?
Avery, you can add create quad disks in emulator?

just when you create a new disk, you can choose - single, medium or double density, and quad density is missing.

and if you can, please correct error in the three cassette recordings that I put a little earlier.
(records are longer than 12 seconds).
I promise you, after this long, I will not return to the topic cassette player.

breaker - 19 10 11 - 18:04

>I promise you, after this long, I will not return to the topic cassette player.

Swear on your life and he might do the deal :)

Mclane - 19 10 11 - 19:35

Said recording cassette???????


nsonic - 20 10 11 - 13:29

I think I'll hire a sniper to take you two out!


Mclane - 20 10 11 - 21:43

What I was calling "quad density" are 512 byte/sector disk images. They aren't standard, so there's no entry for them, but you can still create them through the Custom entry.

Version with fixes for Explore crash, fixes for single instance launch with relative paths, reduced system load when paused, 1200XL F1-F4 keys, an HLE kernel crash, and file association support:

Phaeron - 23 10 11 - 15:54

thank you Avery.
you simply the best.

association with the files simply peerless.
There is a small problem - the file type *. atr is assigned to an emulator atari 800winplus and icon for a file type does not change.
see my picture:

one more thing, you forgot to add to the list of file extensions such as ATX and PRO.
and I think that different types of files, better paint in different colors.
such as files cartridge ROM, BIN, CAR - you are all just brown, it's a little confusing.

great emulator!
each time getting better and better!

breaker - 23 10 11 - 17:17

Fix for a pretty nasty POKEY regression, which I only noticed because I accidentally left the emulator running in the self test for 20 minutes. It caused audio to cut out and eventually a crash. It's probably the only time in history that the built-in audio visual test has ever caught anything.

I need to rework the file type association code because apparently Microsoft decided to make it extra annoying starting with Windows Vista -- I figured out that the effect you're seeing is caused by having done Open With... with the "set as default" checkbox checked. I'm seeing this be a problem with A8WP as well although it's a bit easier to go that way since Altirra deletes its ProgIDs if you disable them (which I'm unfortunately going to have to undo to make this work reliably on Vista and Windows 7). It's going to make portable installation/uninstallation more of a problem, too.

The cartridges are brown blobs at small size partly because they lose definition when scaled down from 256x256 and partly because I'm a programmer. By custom and law I am required as a programmer to make ugly art. I'll probably need to think of more creative icons to use for the 16x16 and probably 32x32 sizes.

Phaeron - 24 10 11 - 18:46

>I'm a programmer. By custom and law I am required as a programmer to make ugly art


The bane of all programmers, GUI design etc..... :)

Mclane - 24 10 11 - 20:31

Avery, I want to ask you to add a new mappers of cartridges for atari5200.
I found some images of game cartridges "M.U.L.E" for atari5200.
but these images cartridges refuse to work on altirra.
particularly interesting dump "mule52.bin" - need to mapper 5200 64K.
Please check these dumps:

breaker - 31 10 11 - 18:24

discovered another oddity in emulating atari 5200.
when starting the game "Rampage" for atari 5200 not to press the "button 2" - key "left shift".
for some reason, pressing the "button 2" in game "rampage" leads to crash the emulator.

download video showing the error and give the game "Rampage" for atari 5200 here:

breaker - 02 11 11 - 19:39

This version has new file association code based on "Default Programs" in Vista/Win7, as well as a couple of fixes and some CPU optimizations:

The downside to this method is that it overrides the old way, so you cannot unassociate types from Altirra and once you have assigned them, the only way to reassign is with Default Programs or with Open With in Explorer. Atari800WinPlus only uses the old method and so you can't assign the types back to it via its UI. It would be possible to put it in Default Programs with a reg file, though.

Phaeron - 04 11 11 - 17:16

test 49??
and where did the test 48?

thanks for the update, Avery.
but what about those errors in emulating atari 5200 that I wrote a little earlier?

breaker - 04 11 11 - 17:51

Just hadn't gotten around to it. Sometimes I don't notice the reports until I'm about to post a build.

This version adds a few more file extensions and the 5200 64K cartridge type, and also fixes a 5200 only sound regression that the M.U.L.E. cart exposed:

The Rampage cart appears to be an incomplete port from 800 to 5200. The reason for the crash is that the cart doesn't have code to handle the upper button (trigger), so pressing it causes a crash.

Phaeron - 06 11 11 - 13:59

mega thanks!
Avery, many thanks, you do create simply magnificent emulator.

There is a truth one small problem at opening of files *.a52.
The matter is that if the emulator is adjusted on a configuration of any computer except 5200 at attempt to start *.a52 files the emulator get crash.
It is necessary to make so that at opening *.a52 files in the emulator automatically changed a configuration on:
-hardware 5200
-firmware 5200
-memory 16k
-video ntsc
And only after that there was a window with a choice mappers a cartridge.

breaker - 06 11 11 - 14:57

or you can do so by selecting the cartridge mappers for atari 5200 emulator configuration is automatically changed to:
-memory 16k
-video ntsc

I think it will be even better.
you can open any type of cartridge without error.

breaker - 06 11 11 - 15:44

Avery, if you read this topic
turns out that the video mode Secam had a color palette is different from the palette PAL and NTSC.
Can you add in menu video "adjust colors" settings "Use SECAM quirks"?

breaker - 10 11 11 - 18:17

Hi, could I request a bug fix in the View, Paste feature? When pasting text in BASIC, there is sometimes a pause after the "carriage return", while I guess parsing happens. If the line is long and parsing takes a while then characters get dropped - usually the first digit of the next line number, which makes pasting a big listing problematic.

Thanks for a brilliant emulator.

wesmond - 13 11 11 - 06:25

Even fellow emulator writers like Avery's work..

Here's a post from Toni Wilen who writes the excellent WinUae Amiga emulator..

Mclane - 14 11 11 - 00:16

I heard about the .a52 problem but haven't gotten around to fixing it yet. I'll probably at least stick /hardware:5200 on the command line.

Altirra does emulate one quirk of the FGTIA, which is that it only has three luminance lines (8 shades instead of 16). It doesn't yet emulate the alternating red/blue chroma lines as I don't know the polarity of the lines relative to the ANTIC scan. It doesn't emulate the uneven color spacing either, but that fortunately is actually documented in the FGTIA datasheet.

WinUAE is one of my favorite emulators, particularly for its options screen. For some reason I don't usually have a reason to boot an emulated Amiga anymore, even though I still really like the architecture. I think it's too much in between computer and game machine.

Phaeron - 16 11 11 - 16:33

Thanks for the explanation.

Avery, may I ask you to add two more types of memory in the emulator altirra?
I have several times found a reference to the atari xl / xe with 192k and 256K of memory.
suddenly they will need later.
to the same in some emulators, you can select a type of memory 192k example in the emulator atari 800win 2.2.1

breaker - 16 11 11 - 18:54

Re the Amiga unknown identity, I think we know exactly who to blame for that marketing mess, the same people twice over.

Btw, did you pick up on the cut and paste issue a few posts back?

You said how easy it was to skip stuff when busy, seemed an important issue find by Wesmond.

Mclane - 16 11 11 - 21:25

Thanks - here's a little example of the cut/paste problem; line 40 will get the '4' dropped. Tested on 2.0 beta 50 on a couple of different machines, without any setting changes.


Wesmond - 16 11 11 - 22:45

test51 is out:

* GTIA: Fixed incorrect color for %1000 pattern in mode 10 with lores ANTIC input.

artifex - 20 11 11 - 07:57

Version with a fix for the change log crash:

I haven't had a chance to look at the paste issue yet.

I can add new memory types, but there are a LOT more than you see in any emulator. Part of the reason not all of them are supported is that a lot of them are subsets of ones that emulators already support. 192K is 64K base + 128K extended, which often works with 64K + 256K (320K). 256K is more of an oddball because it usually involves 64K aliased between both base and extended memory. I'd be interested if you find a program that specifically needs such a memory mapping as that's a good reason to implement a specific one.

Phaeron - 22 11 11 - 17:30

thanks for the update, Avery!
I can not find a game or program that requires just 192k or 256K of memory.
but, I have gathered a huge collection of programs, games and demo scenes that use 128k or more memory.
download the archive here:
Many images in the archive are marked or labeled 192k and 256K.

and a special thank you for not forget all the beta testers:)

breaker - 22 11 11 - 17:48

ups, wrong link.
Here is the correct link to the archive:

breaker - 22 11 11 - 18:14

Avery, I found a game that does not work in altirra 2.0 test 52.

This game works in the emulator atari800winplus 4.0.
in altirra this game freezes.

breaker - 01 12 11 - 15:29

Requires write access to the disk image (virtr/w mode).

Phaeron - 01 12 11 - 16:09

will continue ?

breaker - 08 12 11 - 00:47

He's having a break :)

Mclane - 10 12 11 - 20:05

Yes, it's still going... I just haven't been working on it much and any changes have been getting shunted to another code branch. I'll probably release 2.0 in about a week or so if no serious bugs appear.

Phaeron - 11 12 11 - 09:55

Could you make it possible to select which disk drive you insert a disk in throught the command line, i want to be able to add multiple disks in my gamebase.

Hardmanm - 11 12 11 - 20:40

Here's a real challenge Avery :)

A real time Polish to English text converter for all those lovely looking but totally non understandable Eastern European games :)

Of course I jest :)

Mclane - 13 12 11 - 01:17

Mclane@: Lol... It's Polish revenge. In eighty, We haven't instructions, manuals and most of us better know russian language than english. Try to imagine, how hard hard was play, phew... how hard was understand some games:P.

Faust (link) - 13 12 11 - 05:05

Everyone understands English :)

Lol...Just kidding..

Mclane - 13 12 11 - 05:34

> Could you make it possible to select which disk drive you insert a disk in throught the command line, i want to be able to add multiple disks in my gamebase.

Darn, I thought I implemented this. I'll put this in post-2.0 (2.0 branch is locked).

> A real time Polish to English text converter for all those lovely looking but totally non understandable Eastern European games :)

Don't tempt me. I once played through a significant portion of a Japanese RPG by intercepting text and sending it through an automated translator. The results were... interesting.

Phaeron - 14 12 11 - 16:07

Could I flag up the "paste" issue again? Thanks, W.

wesmond - 14 12 11 - 21:23

I'm sat here laughing, when I made up the mad joke translator idea it some weird interface between Altirra and Google translate, never in a million years did I think you had ever done something similar in reality :)


Best stop now before Breaker actually adds it to his list of requests :)

I presume by the comments that there's an Xmas final coming?

That would be a great little present if true..Cheers

Mclane - 14 12 11 - 21:41

Paul, you're so vain think of me.
I have long been asking nothing, so I know how to measure.
All my queries (and there remains very little), I'm going to do after the 2.0 release.

breaker - 14 12 11 - 23:04

Haha...Lighten up Sergey... ;)

I have no doubt you will be snatching with requests at Phaerons ankles like a rabid dog after 2.0 :)

Seasons greetings to you and all on here...

Mclane - 15 12 11 - 02:10

You have to wait until after I get my sprite & background viewer / ripper and my font ripper in Altirra ;)

Odd I just had a premonition of Avery reading this and making rude gestures towards my name :)

Mclane - 15 12 11 - 02:19

"Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki." :-)

artifex - 15 12 11 - 22:24

What game is that from :)

"Pole, Hungarian, two nephew, and the saber, and a glass"

Mclane - 15 12 11 - 23:17

A month passed with the most recent build an emulator.
project still alive?

breaker - 22 12 11 - 14:57

Play with the new build of Atari800win Plus on Atari Age then :)

Mclane - 24 12 11 - 02:46

Tsk, tsk... your lack of faith in me is disappointing.

Phaeron - 24 12 11 - 08:11

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